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Swapping Eminence BP102 in Small 1x10 Bass Cab to get brighter- recommendations?

tlite

tlite

Aug 18, 2016
721
1,018
Florida
#1
Looking for your ideas for a new 10" driver for a 1x10 cabinet I have.

A friend of mine built me this bass cabinet awhile ago. This is the one I'm looking for a new speaker for.

It is my first (and only) custom bass cabinet, and I chose an Eminence BP102 to go in it because I wanted to make sure that it maintained a solid low end sound for a small cabinet (it does, no problems there).

BUT- playing through my Fender Rumble 500 Head (or anything else for that matter) I have no high end- high mids are OK, but highs are non-existent. The High Mid EQ on the head is the best I can get to shape treble, and I'd like to add some brightness in the cab's range.

I do prefer a more vintage tone for the most part, but I'm practicing some things (for example some Bach Inventions) and I'd like the ability to dial in a brighter tone when desired.

On the previous thread referenced above, TB'er CL400Peavey recommended using a speaker that goes up to 4.5kHz. The BP102 tops out at 2kHz.

The internal cab dimensions are 11.5" x 15.5" x 14.5" sealed with two 2" ports. I'd be open to adding another speaker and a crossover as I otherwise am happy with the BP102, but I think this cabinet is just too small, so probably need to stick with a single speaker setup?

I did see the Eminence Alpha 10a mentioned in another thread- that looks like a contender.

Any suggestions? I'm still a cabinet noob so feel free to let me know if I haven't provided enough info, or if I missed an old thread on the same subject.

Thanks!
 
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#2
Eminence website has 3 or 4 different cab sizes for BP102. Some cabs are sealed and others have ports. Eminence give the frequency responses for each cab which is different.

Also, Eminence makes a 10" with a whizzer cone for added highs.

I'm sorry that I am too lazy to look this up for you.
 
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#3
bassdude51 said:
Eminence website has 3 or 4 different cab sizes for BP102. Some cabs are sealed and others have ports. Eminence give the frequency responses for each cab which is different.

Also, Eminence makes a 10" with a whizzer cone for added highs.

I'm sorry that I am too lazy to look this up for you.
Click to expand...
I have the cab- looking for a new speaker for the existing cab. And I'll try to forgive your laziness. I know firsthand how difficult it can be to Google things. :D
 
#6
Check out Eminence Basslite S2010

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They have a cab design for a 1.5cuft cab ... dimensions and ports might be different.

Its the speaker that Duke created the megathread "twitterless coffee house cab" or something like that.

The speakers are much better sounding for a fuller range than the BP102.

Bill


hahaha .... I meant TWEETER less .... NOT TWITTER less oh boy.
 
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#9
tlite said:
Thanks! Hadn't seen that thread- I'll give it a read.
Click to expand...
I take it back- I have seen that thread and had totally forgotten about it. Looked at it a long time ago when we were first building the cab I have now. Thanks again for the reminder.

Need to fire up WinISD and check the curve with the B102 and the S2010 to see what it looks like, but I'd guess both those options will be pretty good for what I'm looking to accomplish.
 
#10
tlite said:
The internal cab dimensions are 11.5" x 15.5" x 14.5" sealed with two 2" ports. I'd be open to adding another speaker and a crossover as I otherwise am happy with the BP102, but I think this cabinet is just too small, so probably need to stick with a single speaker setup?

I did see the Eminence Alpha 10a mentioned in another thread- that looks like a contender.
Click to expand...
Current tuning of the cab is way to high for the BP102. To get a better (more detailed) sound I'd start with modifying the tuning down to a lower number.
Although the BP102 has shy mids at best the highish tuning turns this characteristic to even more worse.

Even with S2010 and B102 you may want have a lower tuning than the existing one. I'd suggest equal or lower than 55Hz (length of ports <= 2") for S2010 and B012 and a rather lowish tuning around 45Hz (length of ports around 4") for BP102.

If there is nothing but two holes in the baffle the current tuning of your cab predicts around 68Hz which pretty highish.

The Alpha 10a shows good results for cab volume almost twice as big than your existing cab.
 
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#11
ThisBass said:
Current tuning of the cab is way to high for the BP102. To get a better (more detailed) sound I'd start with modifying the tuning down to a lower number.
Although the BP102 has shy mids at best the highish tuning turns this characteristic to even more worse.

Even with S2010 and B102 you may want have a lower tuning than the existing one. I'd suggest equal or lower than 55Hz (length of ports <= 2") for S2010 and B012 and a rather lowish tuning around 45Hz (length of ports around 4") for BP102.

If there is nothing but two holes in the baffle the current tuning of your cab predicts around 68Hz which pretty highish.

The Alpha 10a shows good results for cab volume almost twice as big than your existing cab.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I may be doing something wrong, but my WinISD model shows the cab is tuned to 44.49Hz with the BP102?
1.496 cu. ft. volume box
2 2" vents @ 7.76" length
 
#13
1.496 cu ft - 0.041 cu ft (volume displaced by driver) = 1.45 cu ft net voume.
2" vents @ 7.6" length predicts fb = 35Hz and f3 = 46Hz
(BassBox pro)

Fb = 35Hz is way to low for S2010 and B102, except your sound goal is a pretty dust-dry "feel" with lean bass response.
I think you don't want to trade off just bass for mids

Would prefer somewhat higher tuning (40..45Hz) even with BP102
 
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#14
ThisBass said:
1.496 cu ft - 0.041 cu ft (volume displaced by driver) = 1.45 cu ft net voume.
2" vents @ 7.6" length predicts fb = 35Hz and f3 = 46Hz
(BassBox pro)

Fb = 35Hz is way to low for S2010 and B102, except your sound goal is a pretty dust-dry "feel" with lean bass response.

Would prefer somewhat higher tuning even with BP102
Click to expand...
Ah. Got it. I mispoke earlier, my WinISD tuning does show closer to 36Hz. So I think we're pretty close.

Thank you so much for the analysis. So does this mean that the cabinet is OK for the BP102, but pretty much not going to be able to get any more high end range that sounds decent with just a 1x10 setup?

I'm trying to do the legword myself here- just not as experienced so kind of trial and error from my side...
 
#15
At least for the three speakers in question I wouldn't try to spend my money for a bet on good sound.
IMO it's nealry impossible to find a driver works well with this lowish tuning and also provides decent mids.
May be a coaxial driver might do the job to serve enough lowish range as well as the mids/treble.
As an alternative you might shorten length of the ports to get proper tuning for drivers like S2010 or B102.
 
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#16
Thanks again.

FWIW if this ever helps anyone else, I emailed Eminence to see if they had any recommendations and their thought was I'd lose too much bass. Their tech recommended adding an APT80, a PXB:3K5 high-pass filter (for tweeter protection), and a PX-Lpad (for tweeter attenuation).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Crossover Detail | Eminence Speaker

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#17
Adding a tweeter would not be the best idea. There will be a gap between the tweeters response and the 10". Unless that's a sound you like. Adding a 5 or 6" mid driver would be better. But the easy solution would be the wizzer cone version of the bp102. I think they are out of production, but they might still be availlable. I have been using two of those in all kinds of cabs for maybe the past 20 years. Indistructible they are.
 
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#18
Matthijs said:
Adding a tweeter would not be the best idea. There will be a gap between the tweeters response and the 10".
Click to expand...
+1, the gap between woofers that are only good to 2 khz or so before they have weak off-axis response and tweeters that start working at least a half octave above that is one of the most common deficiencies of bass cabs. There is a tweeter that's better suited to bass, the Eminence BGH 25. It goes lower than PA tweeters like the APT 80, and it doesn't go as high either, for less hiss. BFM specifies it in the Simplexx bass cabs. He uses a 4th order highpass filter so it can run to 2 khz, eliminating the response gap. Odd that Eminence didn't mention it.
As for the lows, no one's mentioned the major difference between the BP102 xmax and the other recommendations. With only one ten it should be at the top of the list of considerations. The B102, for instance, has less than half the xmax of the BP102. That's a difference in maximum output of 6dB, the equivalent of reducing the effective power handling by 75%.
 

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