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Does the bass I'm imagining exist? Bass VI / 6-String Bass Question

Saturday

Saturday

Jan 10, 2008
82
20
#1
Let's thing about the Fender Bass VI, or any 30 inch scale 6-string bass tuned to EADGC. It's its own thing, so it sounds a bit like a baritone, or like a crude / lo-fi short scale bass. Or it can sound like a guitar as well. But sound-wise, i will say that the consensus is that it's more like a good baritone / guitar than a good bass.

I'm looking for kind of the opposite. I want a 34-inch, full scale length bass that can also do good baritone / guitar duties with an extended range. I really like dark, woody tones and chords (i'm a fender/vintage guy). But the instruments i'm looking for always go for the modern side (any 6 string bass). If i'm looking into Youtube and see 6 string bass players, or 5 string bass players that are tuned to EADGC, they play chords and sound nice but it's with this super sterile, hi-fi sound that i don't really enjoy.

So, this is what i would like, but i don't think it exists:
1) small body and lightweight
2) small neck with tight string spacing
3) tuned to EADGC so a nice C-string (maybe 32 or 33 inch scale for this? or fanned frets so the scale goes from 34 to 32?)
4) fender-style pickups that can a) do a nice Fender Bass tone and also b) can sound guitar-like. I talked with a luthier and he told me that a P51 pickup is basically very similar to a Fender Single coil Guitar pickup, so something like that in the bridge position?
5) passive electronics

For now, i'm thinking about grabbing a mid-priced 5-string bass (ibanez?) and tune it to EADGC and experiment with the electronics (make them passive? custom pickups? something that doesn't sound hi-fi?) and go from there.. and if i like the idea and how it sounds and maybe go for a luthier to build that for me.

Sorry for the rant, but maybe the questions I'm asking here is
a) does the bass i'm looking for exists?
b) anybody that went to the same journey as I am?
c) any bass players that play in that fashion? with a bass like a baritone-ish sound, or using chords, with an extended range but not for soloing in a jazz context. I'm open to anything.

Thanks!
 
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#3
You’ll be fighting physics between scale length, string gauge and playability.

For a 34” scale length, you’re generally going to find heavier gauge strings and thicker necks. So that eliminates the vast majority of these instruments.

Since the Bass VI is a short scale (30”), it can get away with lighter gauge strings and still be playable without much in the way of floppiness. It’s got the tone you’re looking for right out of the box and it’s strung for EADGBE. Neck profile is in the neighborhood of what you’re looking for as well.

Baritone is even shorter scale (27” to 30”) and can get away with what amounts to heavy gauge guitar strings. They also commonly tuned lower than standard in BEADF#B or CFBbEbGC. You could tune it up to E but might need ti put even lighter gauge strings on. At that point you might as well just use a normal guitar. Scratch that option.

You’re going to facing compromises if you go with a production instrument. You *might* be able to mod a Bass VI and install a longer neck. All your other specs are met but it may be a tricky option finding the right neck. Or the Ibanez that @Stinkoman20xx identified.

I think, realistically, you’re looking at a custom build but will still be constrained by physics.

I’d be inclined to start with a stock Squier Bass VI and go from there. I have a feeling that you won’t even notice that it’s a 30” scale.
 
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#4
A Danelecto Baritone might make you happy. IRRC, it was originally sold as a 6-string bass, anyway. One of the first, in fact. And at 29.75", it's scale is at the upper end of a baritone guitar; so, with the right strings, I'd bet it could be either one. A plus for me, is that I could get a left handed one, but... I really have no use for a 6-string bass, and the Eastwood Sidejack Baritone I had for years, just never got used. But, the Dano does tempt me - just a little...:cool:
 
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#6
DirtDog said:
I’d be inclined to start with a stock Squier Bass VI and go from there. I have a feeling that you won’t even notice that it’s a 30” scale.
Click to expand...

I'd plan to get a Bass VI in one moment because i was always interested in that kind of Instrument, but this is a whole different thing.
I had several short scale basses (mustangs, hofners, etc). I do not want a 30 inch bass. I know how it sounds and it's purposes. I'm exactly looking for the opposite. Something with a big , deep, round E string that only a long scale can provide. At least that's how it works for my ears.

Remember that it's not needed for it to have 6 strings. 5 strings can be fine. Just want something extended range with long scale that doesn't sound super modern. apologies if my first post wasn't well written enough, english is my 2nd language.
 
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#8
Saturday said:
I'd plan to get a Bass VI in one moment because i was always interested in that kind of Instrument, but this is a whole different thing.
I had several short scale basses (mustangs, hofners, etc). I do not want a 30 inch bass. I know how it sounds and it's purposes. I'm exactly looking for the opposite. Something with a big , deep, round E string that only a long scale can provide. At least that's how it works for my ears.

Remember that it's not needed for it to have 6 strings. 5 strings can be fine. Just want something extended range with long scale that doesn't sound super modern. apologies if my first post wasn't well written enough, english is my 2nd language.
Click to expand...
Get a 34" 6 or 5 string then?
With the right amount of knob turning on the bass or amp, you could get a more vintage sound I would think. They do make a five string P bass.
 
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#9
Idle thought: Since you want a skinny neck, maybe get a standard Ibanez Soundgear 5 or 6-string and replace the pickups? The stock pickups tend to be somewhat oversize so you can use their covers over smaller Fender-style single coil pickups, to keep it looking good.
 
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#10
Saturday said:
Let's thing about the Fender Bass VI, or any 30 inch scale 6-string bass tuned to EADGC.
Click to expand...
EADGC is a 5-string, not a 6-.
It's its own thing,
Click to expand...
Every bass is.
so it sounds a bit like a baritone, or like a crude / lo-fi short scale bass.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like many things, including *a* bass. Nothing inherently "crude" or "lo-fi".
But sound-wise, i will say that the consensus is that it's more like a good baritone / guitar than a good bass.
Click to expand...
Respectfully: consensus, schmonsensus. People who say that go in expecting a Bass VI not to sound like "a good bass", so they find what they expected in the first place.
[By the way, the fact it is a "good baritone / guitar" is overemphasised (usually by the same folks) - just as many guitarists will probably tell you a VI is rather lousy for baritone duties, unless you swap its E-e strings for a proper bari set.]

Re the instrument you want:
- consider a multiscale bass like the Ibanez EHB1005SMS (32"-30" scale).
- But, in addition to that, look into bi-amping (with an active crossover to split highs and lows) or multi-amping (no crossover, but at least with lows entirely cut in the high amp) with a double rig:
1) a bass amp + bass cabinet for the lows;
AND
2) a guitar amp + a guitar cabinet (very important), or at least a guitar amp + guitar cabinet emulation, for the highs.
String gauges vs. scale are important for an extended range instrument to sound and feel guitar-like in its treble range, but signal chain is just as important. Bass drivers are made with different tone goals than guitar drivers are (and, unlike the latter, are often accompanied by tweeters, which go a lot higher than guitar drivers), so they don't shape the high end in the same way as guitar drivers (or emulators) do.
 
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#11
Saturday said:
Let's thing about the Fender Bass VI, or any 30 inch scale 6-string bass tuned to EADGC. It's its own thing, so it sounds a bit like a baritone, or like a crude / lo-fi short scale bass. Or it can sound like a guitar as well. But sound-wise, i will say that the consensus is that it's more like a good baritone / guitar than a good bass.

I'm looking for kind of the opposite. I want a 34-inch, full scale length bass that can also do good baritone / guitar duties with an extended range. I really like dark, woody tones and chords (i'm a fender/vintage guy). But the instruments i'm looking for always go for the modern side (any 6 string bass). If i'm looking into Youtube and see 6 string bass players, or 5 string bass players that are tuned to EADGC, they play chords and sound nice but it's with this super sterile, hi-fi sound that i don't really enjoy.

So, this is what i would like, but i don't think it exists:
1) small body and lightweight
2) small neck with tight string spacing
3) tuned to EADGC so a nice C-string (maybe 32 or 33 inch scale for this? or fanned frets so the scale goes from 34 to 32?)
4) fender-style pickups that can a) do a nice Fender Bass tone and also b) can sound guitar-like. I talked with a luthier and he told me that a P51 pickup is basically very similar to a Fender Single coil Guitar pickup, so something like that in the bridge position?
5) passive electronics

For now, i'm thinking about grabbing a mid-priced 5-string bass (ibanez?) and tune it to EADGC and experiment with the electronics (make them passive? custom pickups? something that doesn't sound hi-fi?) and go from there.. and if i like the idea and how it sounds and maybe go for a luthier to build that for me.

Sorry for the rant, but maybe the questions I'm asking here is
a) does the bass i'm looking for exists?
b) anybody that went to the same journey as I am?
c) any bass players that play in that fashion? with a bass like a baritone-ish sound, or using chords, with an extended range but not for soloing in a jazz context. I'm open to anything.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think Sandberg could make you one. Talk to a local dealer
 
#12
hey

i use a couple of 34-inch basses (fretted/fretless) strung D-Eb (up a minor third from a standard B-C 6-string bass), so down a whole step from what you’d want.

i think they cop the “regular bass” thing pretty well, plus have the additional range and opportunities for chords, etc.

strings and tension are pretty key. i have some kaliums on there right now. since they have (had?) string tension charts for psi at pitch, you can dial in what you like. (i like loose tension.)

my basses are 19mm spacing, which is a tad large for the strings, but still usable for my purposes.

imo, from what you state you want, what you (might) need is a passive bolt-on, 34-inch scale, 16.5mm or 17mm bass. small body could cause balance issues, unless you decide to go headless. also, getting pickups could be iffy, but i’m pretty sure nordstrand builds something that could suffice if you need to rip the guts out of an active bass (assuming that the pickups and tone circuitry are both active).
 
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#13
Saturday said:
Let's thing about the Fender Bass VI, or any 30 inch scale 6-string bass tuned to EADGC. It's its own thing, so it sounds a bit like a baritone, or like a crude / lo-fi short scale bass. Or it can sound like a guitar as well. But sound-wise, i will say that the consensus is that it's more like a good baritone / guitar than a good bass.
Click to expand...
Crude? The entirety of the first Cream album was recorded with one, although I suspect that Jack used his upright on “Four Until Late”. While that album was not recorded in the most deluxe studio, the bass still sounds fat, not at all twangy. While there’s alot of compression, I’d be hard pressed to tell it apart from other four string short scales of the Brit invasion era(on this early single)…

There was a 70’s British jazz-rock/prog band, Soft Machine, whose third bassist, Roy Babbington, used a VI, and there was plenty of low end. Don’t forget that one also got handed off to John(or George)during what turned out to be the Beatles’ Let It Be sessions when Paul was at the piano.
 
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#16
Saturday said:
c) any bass players that play in that fashion? with a bass like a baritone-ish sound, or using chords, with an extended range but not for soloing in a jazz context. I'm open to anything.
Click to expand...
In the UK(primarily), in the late 70’s onto the 80’s, there was a bass sound established using four stringers, brighter tone, chorus, and notes on top over a drone bottom. The low end was held down, but with chordal stuff on top. Proponents of that were bands like Siouxie and the Banshees, Magazine, Joy Division, but primarily The Cure, who used a Fender VI in tandem with a four string bass, but not necessarily in a baritone style….



Sometime later, a Scottish band picked up on the idea, with a sometimes strummy VI(but with a P earlier)…


Lately, there has been this trio…
Invalid Link Removed
These are Fender’s picks for showcasing the VI…
Invalid Link Removed

Lastly, while this wouldn’t fit your needs, I picked up this monstrosity, used, some time ago(just for the absurdity)…
IMG_8821.png

A full scale “VI” with an added low B.
 
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#20
ardgedee said:
Idle thought: Since you want a skinny neck, maybe get a standard Ibanez Soundgear 5 or 6-string and replace the pickups? The stock pickups tend to be somewhat oversize so you can use their covers over smaller Fender-style single coil pickups, to keep it looking good.
Click to expand...

yes, this is my initial approach into what to do. it's cheap and I can make a local luthier make a pickup that feel into those covers.

HaphAsSard said:
Re the instrument you want:
- consider a multiscale bass like the Ibanez EHB1005SMS (32"-30" scale).
- But, in addition to that, look into bi-amping (with an active crossover to split highs and lows) or multi-amping (no crossover, but at least with lows entirely cut in the high amp) with a double rig:
1) a bass amp + bass cabinet for the lows;
AND
2) a guitar amp + a guitar cabinet (very important), or at least a guitar amp + guitar cabinet emulation, for the highs.
String gauges vs. scale are important for an extended range instrument to sound and feel guitar-like in its treble range, but signal chain is just as important. Bass drivers are made with different tone goals than guitar drivers are (and, unlike the latter, are often accompanied by tweeters, which go a lot higher than guitar drivers), so they don't shape the high end in the same way as guitar drivers (or emulators) do.
Click to expand...

Great advice. I've beein eye-ing the Ibanez EHB1005SMS and it looks very interesting. would like to play one but they aren't available in my country right now (Argentina).
Regarding the tone, you are 100% correct with the bi-amping aproach. Or at least when recording to duplicate the the signal and processing it both ways (in a bass way, and in a guitar way).
I also thought about the idea of using something like a rick-o-sound for splitting pickups to different amps, or - even more complex - to have different pickups for different strings. but that would be for a later stage on this process.

BarfanyShart said:
I have an Ibanez EHB 1005SMS that I tune in fifths CGDAE. This fulfills all of my bass VI dreams. Other basses to consider would be the Ibanez SRC6 or SRC6-MS, or (if you really need 34" scale) the SR506 might be the closest thing you'll find.
Click to expand...

Second mention of the EHB 1005SMS. Fascinated at the idea of tuning it in fifths. How do you actually tune it? Is the C like one half-step above the low B of a 5 string bass or like the C in the A string of a 4 String Bass? How did you get used to that tuning?

RE: all the bass vi suggestions. again i know it's a good instrument but it still doesn't fill the deep bass that i like. again I played a bunch of short scale basses. they don't cut it to my ears for the specific sound i looking for. i've been playing for 20 years, i know what I like.
 
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