10’s for short scale - any truth to this?

[grubdumpling]

What knots do you use?

I've found without any doubt that the best knot for metal is the noose, but for what I play, a nice random tangle sounds best.

 

[G0n]

As a general rule of thumb, thumbs are better for smacking the low string than for standards of measurement.

I’ve never heard anything about 10s being the go-to speaker size for SS, but I know a lot of people who seem to think that smaller speakers are punchier on the high mid-range. So maybe?

 

[Ostie]

I used to have a 115 cab and it sounded great with my shorties. Prolly shoulda kept it.

 

[BassyBill]

Heard someone mention that 110’s and 210’s are the best cabs for short scale basses, I’m struggling to work out the reason or if there’s any truth to this.

I’d heard some outright egregious bollocks here on TB over the years, but think this one might just take the biscuit. Totally devoid of any foundation in reality, experience or logic, “best cabs for short scale basses” has all the makings of a classic TalkBass trope.

Can anybody tell me - what are the best flats for playing metal after 8PM in Milwaukee on a green bass while I’m wearing Nike running shoes?

 

[agedhorse]

Perhaps @agedhorse or one of the other MI vets here can confirm whether the bass waves coming from a rear-firing folded-horn cabinet gain power as they radiate further from the cab.

No speaker can gain power or volume as the sound radiates from the cabinet, but the room boundaries and radiation patterns can certainly affect the perception a lot.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Heard someone mention that 110’s and 210’s are the best cabs for short scale basses, I’m struggling to work out the reason or if there’s any truth to this.

My experience is that 15’s can maybe sound a little boomy, and 410’s sound great with almost anything, but I’ve never thought that a particular speaker size is best for any specific scale length.

No correlation between driver size and sound quality these days. At least that's my experience. Things were much worse/different back in the sixties, but nowadays, bass gear has never been better and some of the old stereotypes are finally dying.

 

[Tassieviking]

Can anybody ell me - what are the best flats for playing metal after 8PM in Milwaukee on a green bass while I’m wearing Nike running shoes?

Dr Neons Red White & Blue

 

[Ostie]

If you play a 35” or 36” scale bass you gotta have a 18. Two is better.

 

[lug]

Rarely do I come across a subject that is too rediculous for me to even make a joke about.

 

[Michedelic]

Perhaps @agedhorse or one of the other MI vets here can confirm whether the bass waves coming from a rear-firing folded-horn cabinet gain power as they radiate further from the cab.

No speaker can gain power or volume as the sound radiates from the cabinet, but the room boundaries and radiation patterns can certainly affect the perception a lot.

Why was it that the common complaint about those rigs was while on stage you would hear just some undefined mud, and would be tempted to turn up the volume, you were killing everybody in the seventh row? The company came up with a powered 2x12 cab to add to the stack for immediate note response, way before the bi-amping craze, but curiously that didn’t catch on.
I’m just going by observations while being in the audience for shows in that time period, those amps were ubiquitous by 1970 and for just a few years later, but it seem like they disappeared overnight, as large scale PA systems improved. That evolution, plus the emergence of the SVT with a mid-range focused sound, led Acoustic to drift away from the concept(issuing more front-firing cabs), and poster boy JPJ moved on to early GK. Jaco kept his, but eventually dabbled with Hartke.
Then there’s that phenomenon of when your neighbor is having an outdoor summertime party, blasting EDM or some other bass heavy music on consumer level stereo equipment (i.e., not proper sound reinforcement), and the low end is throbbing several houses away(your place)to the point of being a nuisance, but people at the party aren’t being knocked down(they may be going deaf, but that’s another story). I understand how the high end information disappears over distance.

 

[agedhorse]

Why was it that the common complaint about those rigs was while on stage you would hear just some undefined mud, and would be tempted to turn up the volume, you were killing everybody in the seventh row? The company came up with a powered 2x12 cab to add to the stack for immediate note response, way before the bi-amping craze, but curiously that didn’t catch on.
I’m just going by observations while being in the audience for shows in that time period, those amps were ubiquitous by 1970 and for just a few years later, but it seem like they disappeared overnight, as large scale PA systems improved. That evolution, plus the emergence of the SVT with a mid-range focused sound, led Acoustic to drift away from the concept(issuing more front-firing cabs), and poster boy JPJ moved on to early GK. Jaco kept his, but eventually dabbled with Hartke.
Then there’s that phenomenon of when your neighbor is having an outdoor summertime party, blasting EDM or some other bass heavy music on consumer level stereo equipment (i.e., not proper sound reinforcement), and the low end is throbbing several houses away(your place)to the point of being a nuisance, but people at the party aren’t being knocked down(they may be going deaf, but that’s another story). I understand how the high end information disappears over distance.

Part of the perception of muddiness is because the mids are more directional, and with a folded horn the mids are also smeared by multiple reflections within the horn’s folded flair. The farther away you are the more on axis you become compared with standing on stage.

 

[Arjank]

"10’s for short scale - any truth to this?"

No, but 18's are mandatory for multi-scale B's and below

 

[primusfan1989]

My experience is that 15’s can maybe sound a little boomy, and 410’s sound great with almost anything, but I’ve never thought that a particular speaker size is best for any specific scale length.

This is false, a driver of a given size can have radically different sound depending on the cabinet its mounted into, is it ported and so on. Go play a bunch of different stuff and figure out what sounds best to you

 

[pglaser01]

No speaker can gain power or volume as the sound radiates from the cabinet, but the room boundaries and radiation patterns can certainly affect the perception a lot.

could this almost be explained mathematically? If sound waves dissipate as distance traveled increases, which is the bigger factor for increases in distance of wave traveled relative to energy loss?

Does the frequency/energy of the wave itself play a larger role? Or, rather, does the relative starting power/volume play a bigger role? I’m almost thinking of this as an equation of distance= delta energy of wave* db of input (assuming the same medium)

I’m probably way off but it interests me nonetheless!

Edit: I should consider differences in radiation pattern as well, but I’m thinking of a fixed point of perception without an over abundance of reflection patterns for this. More or less distance only.

 

[Guitalia]

Part of the perception of muddiness is because the mids are more directional, and with a folded horn the mids are also smeared by multiple reflections within the horn’s folded flair. The farther away you are the more on axis you become compared with standing on stage.

Additional thoughts:

The idea that folded-horn speakers sound louder at a distance likely arose not among the bass players in the big touring bands, playing on deep stages while standing far from their amps, but among local players, standing a few feet in front of an Acoustic 360 or some such. Most of what that player would hear from the amp would be coming from the upper part of the folded horn - so only about half of the total volume, or not much more.

In an audience, sitting in the seventh row of a 1970 Led Zeppelin concert, you'd have been far enough from the stage to get the full onslaught from JP's Marshalls, JPJ's Acoustic 360s, and Bonham's drums. Sure, the bass sounded incredibly loud (as did the guitar and drums, in fairness). Was it because of the rear-firing speakers/folded horns, or was it because your home stereo and car speakers hadn't prepared you for what hundreds of watts of bass being played at volume through (reasonably) efficient bass speakers would sound like? I would guess the latter.

 

[Luther]

Heard someone mention that 110’s and 210’s are the best cabs for short scale basses, I’m struggling to work out the reason or if there’s any truth to this.

My experience is that 15’s can maybe sound a little boomy, and 410’s sound great with almost anything, but I’ve never thought that a particular speaker size is best for any specific scale length.

It's absolutely true: the bigger the bass the bigger the speaker.

 

[Luther]

I’d heard some outright egregious bollocks here on TB over the years, but think this one might just take the biscuit. Totally devoid of any foundation in reality, experience or logic, “best cabs for short scale basses” has all the makings of a classic TalkBass trope.

Can anybody tell me - what are the best flats for playing metal after 8PM in Milwaukee on a green bass while I’m wearing Nike running shoes?

Labella

 

[fhm555]

Of course tens are better for short scales, but only golden crowned flying foxes can hear the difference. There is also a general consensus among sonic experts that seeing ear dogs can also tell if you are using tens with a short scale
So if you are playing a short scale to giant bats with blond hair or seeing ear dogs, it pays to use tens.

 

[2112]

Somebody told me in the 00s that 18s are bad for stage use because the sound waves they produce are too long to hear at close distance.

This takes me back to when I was a greasy-faced teenager working at MacDonalds... every once in awhile we'd send the rookies back to get a "can of steam" for the bun steamers.

Tell that to my K140s.

View attachment 5334702

Great googly moogly I LOVE that psychedelic speaker grill fabric!

 

[agedhorse]

could this almost be explained mathematically? If sound waves dissipate as distance traveled increases, which is the bigger factor for increases in distance of wave traveled relative to energy loss?

Does the frequency/energy of the wave itself play a larger role? Or, rather, does the relative starting power/volume play a bigger role? I’m almost thinking of this as an equation of distance= delta energy of wave* db of input (assuming the same medium)

I’m probably way off but it interests me nonetheless!

Edit: I should consider differences in radiation pattern as well, but I’m thinking of a fixed point of perception without an over abundance of reflection patterns for this. More or less distance only.

You have to take everything in context unless you listen to the speakers in an anechoic chamber or environment.

Yes, it can be described mathematically, but it’s very complex and easier to understand the principles qualitatively.