1st preamp/effects pedal: what happens when adding mod/delay pedal?

[FretRiff]

My question might have some wrong technical assumptions, but here goes.

I’m looking to buy my first bass pedal, but I have a question involving future pedal purchases that might affect my choice of this first pedal.

I was initially researching an affordable preamp with a D.I. and a headphone output so I could practice ampless on the sofa but also be able to output to my Mac’s audio interface. My first thought was the $90 Joyo Tidal Wave, which can do this.

But Line 6 has a sale this month that reduces the POD Express Bass to $130. It can emulate preamp boost along with meh-to-good effects (delays, reverbs, chorus, flanger, phaser, trem, distortions) in a nice hands-on manner, and it also acts as its own USB-C audio interface and has a headphone jack. It would be nice to affordably play with different effects.

My question is this: what happens to the overall sound when I inevitably get additional pedals? For example, the Boss SL-2 Slicer seems like something unique and fun, and I could use it with my synths and DAW too.

Additional pedals would have to be placed before the Joyo or Line 6, meaning mod/delay effects will be processed _before_ the preamp's EQ/cab sim, which could alter their tonal character, yes?

Is this a big deal or not?

Or should I alternatively look right now for a different (more expensive) preamp/D.I. that has an FX loop?

Or am I missing something?

 

[ardgedee]

If you were playing through a real amp and cab, the mod/delay effect would be between your bass and the amp.

If you want to apply effects after the simulated amp output, you can do that in whatever DAW you're using. The effects in Garage Band are kind of limited but most of them are better than you might expect and you can basically pile them on until the computer's chugging hard enough that you can see the latency.

 

[FretRiff]

If you were playing through a real amp and cab, the mod/delay effect would be between your bass and the amp.

If you want to apply effects after the simulated amp output, you can do that in whatever DAW you're using. The effects in Garage Band are kind of limited but most of them are better than you might expect and you can basically pile them on until the computer's chugging hard enough that you can see the latency.

I don't intend right now to play through a real amp/cab. Right now I only have a Roland CM-30 monitor which I've used for synths, and I'm a little anxious about blowing out the Roland if I plugged in a bass and played too loud.

I'd be playing into Ableton Live, for which I have a lot of paid and free plugins (which I only have experience using with synths to this point in time). One portable alternative to pedals would be to simply buy a little bus-powered audio interface like the AudioBox GO, and record direct into my iPad, using iPadOS plugins there. But I like the idea of tweakable hardware interfaces...

My question is predicated on having read that you want to put your time-based effects at the end of the chain, which wouldn't be possible if I used a preamp that was also the D.I. which needed to be last in the chain. I like the idea of starting out spending only $90-$130 on preamp/effects, but I don't want to waste that money when I later get pedals which might necessitate shelving the initial pedal I bought.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

You can use the preamp/DI last after the Delay & Reverb at the end (after filter, distortion, modulation) then into your recording gear.

You have a very modest budget. I would be thinking +/- $250 for a good "keeper" preamp. I like to recommend Source Audio ZIO Bass Analog Preamp. Look it up....

This company is groundbreaking and a sonic monster. You should see what SA is putting out very shortly after what they did last week!

Source Audio Nuero Editor 3/SoundCheck

Good luck...!!

 

[ardgedee]

My question is predicated on having read that you want to put your time-based effects at the end of the chain, which wouldn't be possible if I used a preamp that was also the D.I. which needed to be last in the chain. I

There are no real rules over where to put effects in a chain. Reverb tends to be put at the end, delay usually is, but it's up to where you think they sound best, not what somebody else thinks.

But beyond that -- if you want to simulate a real-world setup of bass playing into an amp, the effects have to come before the amp/cab sims, because in the real world the effects have to be before the cab. After the cab, they're just sitting there, unplugged

 

[900se]

Another one to consider is a NUX MLD bass preamp. It has DI, pre-amp with parametric mids EQ, speaker emulation and IR loader, HPF, LPF, noise-gate, and overdrive - plus headphones and a drum machine for practice. Also acts as a USB audio interface too. About $150. it doesn't have the effects like the Pod, but it heavily built and sounds good. I found the pod a little plastic-y and wouldn't want to gig it. Also, the switching effects didn't lend themselves to being changed during a gig - separate pedals or a more performance-oriented multi-effects would be better for that.

 

[900se]

Also, the POD doesn't have a balanced DI out - just headphones, instrument level jack and USB.

 

[FretRiff]

Also, the POD doesn't have a balanced DI out - just headphones, instrument level jack and USB.

Right. But as a first/home pedal for headphone practicing and recording it has a class-compliant audio interface built in. No drivers needed on the Mac, just a USB-C cable. If I gig that’ll be down the road with other pedals.

 

[FretRiff]

There are no real rules over where to put effects in a chain. Reverb tends to be put at the end, delay usually is, but it's up to where you think they sound best, not what somebody else thinks.

But beyond that -- if you want to simulate a real-world setup of bass playing into an amp, the effects have to come before the amp/cab sims,

Thanks. My concern is that it would sound bad and I’d have no recourse but to have to also budget a pre to get a 2nd pedal.

 

[900se]

Right. But as a first/home pedal for headphone practicing and recording it has a class-compliant audio interface built in. No drivers needed on the Mac, just a USB-C cable. If I gig that’ll be down the road with other pedals.

Thanks true. I was thinking more along the lines of what would work now but would not become too redundant in the future.

Out of curiosity, what DAW are you using? Something like garageband - or something more feature-rich like Reaper? if it's Reaper, then there are a lot of free plugins that will run amp emulation, cab sims, guitar effects etc. To test pedal orders, you could use DI to get your basic bass sound into the DAW - and then route it through effects and sims in various orders to see what works and what sort of effects you prefer. Then you could take that insight to choose outboard gear.

 

[FretRiff]

You can use the preamp/DI last after the Delay & Reverb at the end (after filter, distortion, modulation) then into your recording gear. You have a very modest budget. I would be thinking +/- $250 for a good "keeper" preamp. I like to recommend Source Audio ZIO Bass Analog Preamp.

Thanks. For home use — practicing and learning — I thought a BDDI clone would be a decent starter pre, or a decent multi-FX box might offer nice colors to paint with (even if the paint isn’t the highest quality). As a beginner I’m also spending on related gear right now (eg strap, tuner, fret rocker, gig bag, stand, cables) and I think I have time to research a keeper preamp.

 

[FretRiff]

Out of curiosity, what DAW are you using? Something like garageband - or something more feature-rich like Reaper? if it's Reaper, then there are a lot of free plugins that will run amp emulation, cab sims, guitar effects etc. To test pedal orders, you could use DI to get your basic bass sound into the DAW - and then route it through effects and sims in various orders to see what works and what sort of effects you prefer. Then you could take that insight to choose outboard gear.

Yes, true! I didn’t want to be tied down to my desktop iMac though. I’m running Ableton Live, which I’ve been using for a couple of years with a synth and a controller keyboard. I’ve got a bunch of paid and free plugins already, but I never got anything like Guitar Rig (yet).

 

[superheavyfunk]

My question is this: what happens to the overall sound when I inevitably get additional pedals?

My question is predicated on having read that you want to put your time-based effects at the end of the chain,

Having a preamp/amp sim at the end of your chain is almost exactly like using a real amp. All of your effects in both scenarios would be coming before the amp and cab. The “end of your effects chain” typically just refers to the pedals in between your bass and the amp unless there’s an effects loop involved.

 

[FretRiff]

That’s what would be happening if I put it before the Line 6 multi-FX pedal (which then would go out to headphones or my DAW), yes?

 

[superheavyfunk]

That’s what would be happening if I put it before the Line 6 multi-FX pedal (which then would go out to headphones or my DAW), yes?

If I understand you correctly, yes. You’d put your effects ahead of the Line6 and then take a line out from whichever point you need.

Keep in mind though, that not all pedal preamps send the same signal out of every output. Some add the cab sim only to the headphones and DI but not to the line out, for example. Read the specs and diagrams for whichever pedal you’re thinking of buying before pulling the trigger.

 

[monsterthompson]

It’s not too hard to imagine the possibilities here. The preamp (and any included cab sim) is going to function as a tone shaper (EQ/Filter/Distortion). If you put any other effect BEFORE it, that effect will get shaped by that tone shaping, which will be similar to running effects into a physical amp and speaker. If you put effects AFTER it, either hardware or VST, then they will modify the tone shaped sound of the preamp.

There are use cases for either order. Distortion before reverb or delay is a common placement so the distorted sound feels like it is in a space. There are also lots of shoegaze and noise artists who make walls of sound by placing the distortion after the delay or reverb so the repeats are dynamically distorted. There are probably some effects that will sound pretty similar before or after the preamp.

 

[DeltaPhoenix]

Since you are not looking to play through an amp & you have invested in Ableton I think you could lean into Ableton when you want to explore more complex signal chains and FX than the Pod offers.
As long as you can practice some with the Pod by itself and you can get a decent sound into Ableton with it as an audio interface then go with that.

It may make sense to spend the money on a dedicated audio interface and a VST for the amp/cab if you intend to always play through your computer.

 

[Elmstreet]

You can use the preamp/DI last after the Delay & Reverb at the end (after filter, distortion, modulation) then into your recording gear.

You have a very modest budget. I would be thinking +/- $250 for a good "keeper" preamp. I like to recommend Source Audio ZIO Bass Analog Preamp. Look it up....
View attachment 7202711
This company is groundbreaking and a sonic monster. You should see what SA is putting out very shortly after what they did last week!

Source Audio Nuero Editor 3/SoundCheck

Good luck...!!

Do you ever miss not having a knob dedicated to the Mids or is that "scoop" switch enough?

 

[FretRiff]

It may make sense to spend the money on a dedicated audio interface and a VST for the amp/cab if you intend to always play through your computer.

I already have a nice but bulky Audient interface connected to my Mac that I use with synth and mic. I could connect it to my iPad or iPhone but it would be a little too ungainly and I don't want to be plugging and unplugging it from my Mac. Plus one reason I want to play bass is to get away from the computer more! (Also, I've wanted to play for years.) I figure practice can be anywhere with a headphone-equipped pre or FX box, and I can record into my Mac when I want to -- or even record into a tablet or smartphone straight from the Line 6 (or a $40 iRig interface or even an el cheapo $17 model from TC Helicon).

There's no Ableton for iPad but Logic Pro for iPad ($5/month) comes with Bass Amp Designer that lets you choose multiple amp emulations, a dozen cabs, and customized mic choices, position and distance. Garageband is free but comes with a much more basic set of options. (And Logic for Mac has a much larger variety of options.)

 

[DeltaPhoenix]

I have and use Logic Pro on iPad it is pretty solid. I have tried the Bass Amp Designer and found it useable.