2pups; Master Vol BUT only 1 NON-master Tone?

[40Hz]

Hmmm... well, if it contains a wiring diagram for what I need then it’ll be worth it! Thanks for your trouble

You’re welcome.

FWIW, if you have very specific tone sculpting goals, sometimes it’s easier to just use some active EQ, either with an onboard preamp or with a pedal.

I prefer to keep my basses passive. ut I have used Audere onboard preamps for some if my own instruments and for friends. With Audere preamps, there’s very little by way of bass ‘character’ you can’t dial in.

My preferred way is with a pedal however. I can recommed SA’s Programmable EQ. Perfect for taming ir boosting just about any sonic curve you like. It also has the ability to store four separate EQ and level settings so you could program one for regular playing, one for soloing, one for slap, one for your fretless, etc. Highly recommended.

 

[merseymale]

I'm struggling a bit with your requirements to 1) have the P wide open and 2) to dial in the P to add 'mud' to the J. I think with just 2 knobs this will be difficult - how to dial in something that is wide open? Are you planning a selector switch?

Right now I have 2 pickups; a 4way switch & a master volume

I would prefer to ALSO add a separate tone for 1 pickup only and NOT otherwise add or remove what I already have.

my intention of going for volumes for individual pickups is purely so that turning down that volume on it’s pickup (Assuming that volume has no treble bleed network) would also serve to add some preferred warmth to that pick up without the complications(?) of an individual tone control

My comments about increasing the height of the pickup is so that this electrical drop in value could be compensated for by physical increase towards the strings

 

[merseymale]

You’re welcome.

FWIW, if you have very specific tone sculpting goals, sometimes it’s easier to just use some active EQ, either with an onboard preamp or with a pedal.

I prefer to keep my basses passive. ut I have used Audere onboard preamps for some if my own instruments and for friends. With Audere preamps, there’s very little by way of bass ‘character’ you can’t dial in.

My preferred way is with a pedal however. I can recommed SA’s Programmable EQ. Perfect for taming ir boosting just about any sonic curve you like. It also has the ability to store four separate EQ and level settings so you could program one for regular playing, one for soloing, one for slap, one for your fretless, etc. Highly recommended.

View attachment 3616384

thanks for your input -I’d not heard of that pedal! I used to enjoy Active basses etc but I now much prefer to journey the passive route

The “tonal sculpting” I was hoping to achieve is only a subtle one and that’s what got me thinking about using, say, 500k trim-pots as Volumes (NOT tones) without Treble Bleed Networks in the hope of adding warmth without all the problems that seem inherent in individual tone pots

 

[40Hz]

thanks for your input -I’d not heard of that pedal! I used to enjoy Active basses etc but I now much prefer to journey the passive route

The “tonal sculpting” I was hoping to achieve is only a subtle one and that’s what got me thinking about using, say, 500k trim-pots as Volumes (NOT tones) without Treble Bleed Networks in the hope of adding warmth without all the problems that seem inherent in individual tone pots

Not a bad approach. I’ve inserted small value trimmers in series with pickups to alter their sound. Using a 500K pot will be brighter sounding than 250K however.

Rule of thumb:
Increased capacitance and/or lower resistance = darker tone.

Increased resistance and/or lower capacitance = brighter tone.

Too bad there’s no way to make a variable capacitor that has a high enough value to be useful in a passive bass tone circuit - or is small enough to fit in a bass guitar.

A capacitor switcher or varitone circuit can be useful however. But that’s a whole discussion in itself.

 

[SteveCS]

Right now I have 2 pickups; a 4way switch & a master volume

I would prefer to ALSO add a separate tone for 1 pickup only and NOT otherwise add or remove what I already have.

my intention of going for volumes for individual pickups is purely so that turning down that volume on it’s pickup (Assuming that volume has no treble bleed network) would also serve to add some preferred warmth to that pick up without the complications(?) of an individual tone control

My comments about increasing the height of the pickup is so that this electrical drop in value could be compensated for by physical increase towards the strings

I think in the long run you would find two volume and two tones to be sufficiently simple for what you are trying to do, and saves the complication, IME, of having to set radical differences in pickup height to make the whole thing work. When wired as I've shown above, you have the added option of really mudding things up by closing both tones with volumes dimed, as the caps end up in parallel on both pickups together.

 

[merseymale]

Not a bad approach. I’ve inserted small value trimmers in series with pickups to alter their sound. Using a 500K pot will be brighter sounding than 250K however.

Rule of thumb:
Increased capacitance and/or lower resistance = darker tone.

Increased resistance and/or lower capacitance = brighter tone.

Too bad there’s no way to make a variable capacitor that has a high enough value to be useful in a passive bass tone circuit - or is small enough to fit in a bass guitar.

A capacitor switcher or varitone circuit can be useful however. But that’s a whole discussion in itself.

So a total of THREE volumes shouldn’t be a problem, then? Turning one INDIVIDUAL volume won’t affect the other pickup?

 

[merseymale]

I think in the long run you would find two volume and two tones to be sufficiently simple for what you are trying to do, and saves the complication, IME, of having to set radical differences in pickup height to make the whole thing work. When wired as I've shown above, you have the added option of really mudding things up by closing both tones with volumes dimed, as the caps end up in parallel on both pickups together.

I appreciate that you are more knowledgable than I about these things but I feel that that set-up would be too much for me to handle in the heat of battle, as it were but it’s given me a lot to think about, thanks

 

[40Hz]

So a total of THREE volumes shouldn’t be a problem, then? Turning one INDIVIDUAL volume won’t affect the other pickup?

In a passive system there will always be some degree of interaction. There's no real way to avoid it.

 

[merseymale]

In a passive system there will always be some degree of interaction. There's no real way to avoid it.

By putting a small trimmer resistor in series with a pickup I was basically adjusting the level of resistance in the signal going from the pickup to the pot. So it was altering the resonance by making the filter circuit (i.e. what a passive guitar circuit is) see a higher load. You could do the same thing with a small value fixed resistor.

It's something that can be fun to experiment with since pots (and caps) typically have a +/- 10% tolerance. And that can have some effect on the tone as well.So it's more a "fine tuning" sort of thing to do. Some 3rd party boutique wiring harnesses include a trimmer to compensate for minor differences in component values that way.

When you say “By putting a small trimmer resistor in series with a pickup” do you mean the input of the Trimmer will be on one (hot/positive?) wire leading to the output of the trimmer?
ie: the trimmer is attached only on one wire rather than the Hot/Positive is wire on the Trimmer’s input bridging onto the negative (Earth) wire?

(you’re right about wanting to do small and perhaps semi-permanent changes)

 

[40Hz]

When you say “By putting a small trimmer resistor in series with a pickup” do you mean the input of the Trimmer will be on one (hot/positive?) wire leading to the output of the trimmer?
ie: the trimmer is attached only on one wire rather than the Hot/Positive is wire on the Trimmer’s input bridging onto the negative (Earth) wire?

(you’re right about wanting to do small and perhaps semi-permanent changes)

Mea culpa! That's what I get for being preoccupied while typing earlier.

I meant a small (1000pF-3300pF) capacitor in parallel with with the pickup. That changes the external capacitance load on the pickup which decreases the resonant frequency. Sorry about the mistake. I was thinking about something else earlier.

Note: I deleted that part of my earlier post to avoid causing confusion for anyone else who's following along.

 

[fermata]

If you want both pickups on all the time but want to mellow the bridge pickup a bit, I'm thinking a series/parallel switch, a master volume, and and another toggle switch to act as a tone control for the bridge pickup.

Up, the tone switch leaves the bridge pickup unaffected. Down, it puts a capacitor in parallel and a resistor in series with the bridge pickup (to isolate the cap from the neck pickup). For the cap (C1), try .03uF (if it sounds honky, just put a 6-8K Ohm resistor in series with the cap to smooth out the tone). Or you could try a really small value cap to drop the bridge pickup's resonant frequency, as @40Hz suggests above.

And for the resistor (R1), a 250K trim pot would be nice, or try a few different fixed values. The old Jazz basses with stacked pots used a 220K resistor...you could start there, or maybe drop down to 150K or 100K to let more signal through; the minimum amount to isolate the tone cap is what you're after.

All the ground connections can go to the back of the volume pot (250K). The series/parallel switch is on top; the tone switch is below.

I think I've drawn this up correctly...someone chime in if there's a mistake!

 

[merseymale]

Mea culpa! That's what I get for being preoccupied while typing earlier.

I meant a small (1000pF-3300pF) capacitor in parallel with with the pickup. That changes the external capacitance load on the pickup which decreases the resonant frequency. Sorry about the mistake. I was thinking about something else earlier.

Note: I deleted that part of my earlier post to avoid causing confusion for anyone else who's following along.

That’s OK -you got better things to do I’M SURE!

 

[merseymale]

If you want both pickups on all the time but want to mellow the bridge pickup a bit, I'm thinking a series/parallel switch, a master volume, and and another toggle switch to act as a tone control for the bridge pickup.

Up, the tone switch leaves the bridge pickup unaffected. Down, it puts a capacitor in parallel and a resistor in series with the bridge pickup (to isolate the cap from the neck pickup). For the cap (C1), try .03uF (if it sounds honky, just put a 6-8K Ohm resistor in series with the cap to smooth out the tone). Or you could try a really small value cap to drop the bridge pickup's resonant frequency, as @40Hz suggests above.

And for the resistor (R1), a 250K trim pot would be nice, or try a few different fixed values. The old Jazz basses with stacked pots used a 220K resistor...you could start there, or maybe drop down to 150K or 100K to let more signal through; the minimum amount to isolate the tone cap is what you're after.

All the ground connections can go to the back of the volume pot (250K). The series/parallel switch is on top; the tone switch is below.

I think I've drawn this up correctly...someone chime in if there's a mistake!

View attachment 3617019

this already sounds so close -likely perfect- I have a busy week & it’s after midnight BUT I look forward to trying this out!
THANKS

 

[merseymale]

If you want both pickups on all the time but want to mellow the bridge pickup a bit, I'm thinking a series/parallel switch, a master volume, and and another toggle switch to act as a tone control for the bridge pickup.

Up, the tone switch leaves the bridge pickup unaffected. Down, it puts a capacitor in parallel and a resistor in series with the bridge pickup (to isolate the cap from the neck pickup). For the cap (C1), try .03uF (if it sounds honky, just put a 6-8K Ohm resistor in series with the cap to smooth out the tone). Or you could try a really small value cap to drop the bridge pickup's resonant frequency, as @40Hz suggests above.

And for the resistor (R1), a 250K trim pot would be nice, or try a few different fixed values. The old Jazz basses with stacked pots used a 220K resistor...you could start there, or maybe drop down to 150K or 100K to let more signal through; the minimum amount to isolate the tone cap is what you're after.

All the ground connections can go to the back of the volume pot (250K). The series/parallel switch is on top; the tone switch is below.

I think I've drawn this up correctly...someone chime in if there's a mistake!

View attachment 3617019

... just thinking out loud: what if R1 is a trimmer, as you say, and I plug-in; solo the neck Pickup and adjust that trimmer until the neck pup is as clear(ie:UNaffected) as possible.
THAT would ‘tune-in’ the bridge Resistoryes?

actually, now I think about it, Would that resistor ‘mask’/decouple not just the capacitor but another trimmer(variable resistor)& Cap instead of C1?
If so then the whole thing can be a kind of ‘set-&-forget’ affair

I’m using the ‘Tele 4way Mod’ on a rotary switch. My pickguard has 2 knobs & a Jack -just like a Precision except instead of a Master Tone I have the 4postion Rotary Switch

 

[fermata]

Ok, if you’re using a four-way switch (neck, series, parallel, bridge?), put the trim pot in series with the bridge hot lead on the way to the switch, and put the capacitor to the ‘left’ of the trimmer, on the pickup side, not the switch side.

That’s a mistake in my diagram above—the resistor needs to be after the cap to isolate it from the rest of the circuit.

Then you’d have the tone turned down permanently on the bridge pickup—set and forget. And if you don’t want the tone turned down all the way, add a resistor between the cap and ground. Something like 6-8K will sound like the tone is turned to about 1 or 2. 10-15K will be a bit brighter.

 

[James Collins]

You are making this way too complicated. Stop worrying if turning the tone will affect one or both pickups. Wire it so you like your tones. For example, your four way switch could include a capacitor of your choosing that when you go to parallel it just comes on. It could also include a second capacitor that just comes on with the series circuit. Then you don't have to worry about what each setting does.

I think Gretsch has some individual pickup, master volume, master tone, separate pickup volume, and 3 way selector diagrams. Gibson tends to use individual tone and volume controls like a jazz bass and 3 way selector. There are variations on vintage and modern. Wiring with the latter. All give up something and gain something different.

I personally like how Chet Atkins would wire his guitars with a 3 position tone selector switch. It makes it easier to switch between sounds you like. If you have a 3 position tone switch and a 4 positions pickup switch you have 12 different tones. It is a lot less than technically infinity, but food luck finding the separate tones with infinity--though many do just fine.

The majority of the time, the wiring let's you set up a bridge you like for soloing sort of sound and a bridge you like for a rhythm sort of sound, and a parallel that you don't really use.

 

[merseymale]

You are making this way too complicated. Stop worrying if turning the tone will affect one or both pickups. Wire it so you like your tones. For example, your four way switch could include a capacitor of your choosing that when you go to parallel it just comes on. It could also include a second capacitor that just comes on with the series circuit. Then you don't have to worry about what each setting does.

I think Gretsch has some individual pickup, master volume, master tone, separate pickup volume, and 3 way selector diagrams. Gibson tends to use individual tone and volume controls like a jazz bass and 3 way selector. There are variations on vintage and modern. Wiring with the latter. All give up something and gain something different.

I personally like how Chet Atkins would wire his guitars with a 3 position tone selector switch. It makes it easier to switch between sounds you like. If you have a 3 position tone switch and a 4 positions pickup switch you have 12 different tones. It is a lot less than technically infinity, but food luck finding the separate tones with infinity--though many do just fine.

The majority of the time, the wiring let's you set up a bridge you like for soloing sort of sound and a bridge you like for a rhythm sort of sound, and a parallel that you don't really use.

I appreciate the time you’ve spent replying to this but with respect I hardly think 4 settings could be considered complicated or infinite

Two knobs -neither of which is a tone control and the only variable one a volume- is IMHO a pretty simple set up

my intention is to put a bit of work in, at this early stage, so as to SAVE HASSLE later

 

[James Collins]

I appreciate the time you’ve spent replying to this but with respect I hardly think 4 settings could be considered complicated or infinite

Two knobs -neither of which is a tone control and the only variable one a volume- is IMHO a pretty simple set up

my intention is to put a bit of work in, at this early stage, so as to SAVE HASSLE later

Sorry for confusion. I was trying to say you were trying for infinite with your most recent posts, and sometimes it is hard to find a setting you like when you have so many. I was not referring to the 4 way selector.

 

[merseymale]

If you want both pickups on all the time but want to mellow the bridge pickup a bit, I'm thinking a series/parallel switch, a master volume, and and another toggle switch to act as a tone control for the bridge pickup.

Up, the tone switch leaves the bridge pickup unaffected. Down, it puts a capacitor in parallel and a resistor in series with the bridge pickup (to isolate the cap from the neck pickup). For the cap (C1), try .03uF (if it sounds honky, just put a 6-8K Ohm resistor in series with the cap to smooth out the tone). Or you could try a really small value cap to drop the bridge pickup's resonant frequency, as @40Hz suggests above.

And for the resistor (R1), a 250K trim pot would be nice, or try a few different fixed values. The old Jazz basses with stacked pots used a 220K resistor...you could start there, or maybe drop down to 150K or 100K to let more signal through; the minimum amount to isolate the tone cap is what you're after.

All the ground connections can go to the back of the volume pot (250K). The series/parallel switch is on top; the tone switch is below.

I think I've drawn this up correctly...someone chime in if there's a mistake!

View attachment 3617019

This seemsFINE THANKYOU!!