• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

3 bolts vs 4 vs 5.... etc.

Q

Quickie

May 6, 2011
569
2
#1
I remember an older G&L I had back in the 80's.....3 neck bolts and that bass just wailed. It even had a small allen head screw to raise the neck up slightly. My question, do you hear a difference with the multiple neck bolted basses that are available now? Or, are the claims of better tone just that.....claims? Fenders are or were the standard for decades and they have only four bolts.

Opinions? Experiences?
 
#2
Quickie said:
I remember an older G&L I had back in the 80's.....3 neck bolts and that bass just wailed. It even had a small allen head screw to raise the neck up slightly. My question, do you hear a difference with the multiple neck bolted basses that are available now? Or, are the claims of better tone just that.....claims? Fenders are or were the standard for decades and they have only four bolts.

Opinions? Experiences?
Click to expand...
The number of bolts is completely irrelevant to the tone of the instrument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RSBBass
#5
The tighter the neck pocket, the more vibration is transmitted through the instrument, correct?
So perhaps more bolts is an attempt to create more of a solid connection between neck and body,
which in turn effects he sound of the instrument? No snake oil in that. There are other ways to make a tight fitting neck pocket besides more bolts, though.
 
#6
D.A.R.K. said:
The tighter the neck pocket, the more vibration is transmitted through the instrument, correct?
So perhaps more bolts is an attempt to create more of a solid connection between neck and body,
which in turn effects he sound of the instrument? No snake oil in that.
Click to expand...
Purely anecdotal that more bolts produces a better tone. If you want to argue that it creates a structural redundancy in the off chance that a bolt or bolts fail then I guess you could have an argument except for the fact that I have never seen a neck bolt fail.
 
#7
Aspidites said:
The number of bolts is completely irrelevant to the tone of the instrument.
Click to expand...

Having installed threaded inserts on my SX bass collection and a couple of other basses I don't agree.

A good solid neck joint such as that with 6 bolts or threaded inserts makes a difference on a bass with a "loose" neck joint like say an SX or a 3 bolt neck.

It's a small change but it gives the instrument a more solid feel, better sustain, and to me slightly better tone. Someone actually posted oscilloscope pictures here in a thread showing the difference.

But once the neck joint is reasonably tight, making it even tighter (adding inserts, more bolts etc.) basically does nothing. So if your bass already has a decent neck joint THEN the number of bolts is completely irrelevant to the instrument.

But since the effect of few neck bolts is minor (depending on your opinion) some people feel the loss of a bit of tone is worth it for the convenience of adjusting your neck joint easily to get a "perfect" setup. (the allen screw)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5StringPocket and Chris Chong
#9
bassbenj said:
Having installed threaded inserts on my SX bass collection and a couple of other basses I don't agree.

A good solid neck joint such as that with 6 bolts or threaded inserts makes a difference on a bass with a "loose" neck joint like say an SX or a 3 bolt neck.

It's a small change but it gives the instrument a more solid feel, better sustain, and to me slightly better tone. Someone actually posted oscilloscope pictures here in a thread showing the difference.

But once the neck joint is reasonably tight, making it even tighter (adding inserts, more bolts etc.) basically does nothing. So if your bass already has a decent neck joint THEN the number of bolts is completely irrelevant to the instrument.

But since the effect of few neck bolts is minor (depending on your opinion) some people feel the loss of a bit of tone is worth it for the convenience of adjusting your neck joint easily to get a "perfect" setup. (the allen screw)
Click to expand...

As long as the neck and body fit properly there should be no difference in how tight the connection is based upon number of bolts.
 
#11
Dunno if this is relevant here, but a three-legged stool is generally more stable than a four-legged one, because three points always share a plane. Shouldn't then a three-bolt neck joint give a better contact than a four-bolt one, provided that the two contact surfaces are level and all the bolts are tight?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fullmoon1971
#12
Quickie said:
I remember an older G&L I had back in the 80's.....3 neck bolts and that bass just wailed. It even had a small allen head screw to raise the neck up slightly. My question, do you hear a difference with the multiple neck bolted basses that are available now? Or, are the claims of better tone just that.....claims? Fenders are or were the standard for decades and they have only four bolts.

Opinions? Experiences?
Click to expand...

Fender also used 3 bolts (actually one machine screw and two wood screws) on Jazz basses in the mid '70s to early 80's.

Link Removed
 
#15
I think 3-bolt necks got a bad name only because they debuted on Jazz Basses at the same time that Fender was letting its quality control slip and the neck pocket fit was sloppier. As the OP mentioned, G&L never had a problem with 3-bolts, and the current 1975 Jazz reissues have no problems that I'm aware of.
 
#16
FWIW my background is in Mechanical Engineering. I know more than a little about how parts fit together and manufacturing tolerances, having designed Aircraft Components for 12 years. Here is my take on the bolt/neck pocket thing:

Fender basses traditionally have a relatively loose (by machining standards) fit between the neck and neck pocket. This means that the stability of the joint is determined by friction between the two parts. That connection is amazingly tight through the bass (in the direction of the bolts). However, it is not as tight rotationally and may be the reason for some misalignment of strings-neck-pickups-etc on those instruments. A tighter neck pocket IMO would have more to do with reducing misalignments and less to do with acoustic coupling. Once the neck finds it's place (under string tension etc) it shouldn't move. That may affect tone but maybe not like you think.

With the same tolerances and pre-set gap a 6 bolt neck would be better rotationally due to more friction and also the interaction of tolerances of six vs 4 or 3 bolts. If Fender spaced the 4 bolts further apart and lengthened the pocket, it would also improve alignments.

A precision sliding neck pocket joint may be a obvious design choice, and not a problem for CNC machines at all, but will have other repercussions in manufacturing due to different expansion/contraction characteristics of wood types and grain directions. In other words they may make perfect parts today and half of them won't fit next week when the humidity changes. I'm not saying that the pocket can't be tighter than it is, it's just that the mass manufacturing (in several locations) that a company like Fender does kinda forces them to make every neck fit every body. Making a substantially tighter fit would increase the hand work required to sort and fit parts together. I would like to see it but that would affect their bottom line.

IMO if you are interested in maximum coupling and alignment perfection, you need to look at set necks and neck-thru designs or go to a smaller maker who is willing to fit each neck to it's body. Obviously guys like Mike Tobias do a great job with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oida
#17
D.A.R.K. said:
The tighter the neck pocket, the more vibration is transmitted through the instrument, correct?
So perhaps more bolts is an attempt to create more of a solid connection between neck and body,
which in turn effects he sound of the instrument? No snake oil in that. There are other ways to make a tight fitting neck pocket besides more bolts, though.
Click to expand...

i agree with this.

my basses have 6 bolts. the neck pocket is cut perfectly, and real tight. thats not the only reason they sound good, but they do sound better than anything else i've played..
 
#18
groooooove said:
i agree with this.

my basses have 6 bolts. the neck pocket is cut perfectly, and real tight. thats not the only reason they sound good, but they do sound better than anything else i've played..
Click to expand...

Yea but I'm sure the better sound your hearing is not due to the 2 extra bolts. I'm 100% positive it has to do with overall tolerances, preamp selection, and materials. Maybe 5% of your sound is the 6 bolt design and that's being very generous. And this is coming from some one who owns a marcus miller 4 and has issues with the neck. The neck on mine after having strings on it for 2 weeks moves a tad from side to side and cause the tuning to be all over the place. My neck kinda pivots in the pocket and it doesn't matter how tight the bolts are its just that there isn't enought contact and friction between the neck and the neck pocket.
 
#19
Don't forget Ritter:

neck-joint.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris Chong and ed morgan

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back