I recently started studying with a great "old school" Simandl teacher. He keeps yelling at me to use my 3rd finger "as a unit" with my 4th, and I find that very awkward, but it may be just because it is new to me. Usually my 3rd finger just hangs out over the strings until I get to the 4th position where I start using a four finger method. I just don't see the logic in using 2 fingers at a time when my 4th finger does the job fine by itself, plus when the 4th is used, the 1 and 2 are usually already pressing the strings. What do you people think about the "3rd and 4th as a unit" in particular? I could understand that it was used back in the day when action was way higher........
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Double Bass 3rd finger?
- Thread starter Gabe
- Start date
"using the 3rd and 4th as a unit" really strengthens the fourth finger.
It's also easier to adjust and to vibrate when they are a unit, regardless of your use or lack of use of fourfinger method.
I'm not clear on this assertion. Do you mean strenthens the 4th finger when the 4th finger finally gets used alone, or strenthens the 4th finger because the 3rd finger is allowed to provide support?
I mean exactly that when you use 3rd and 4th as a unit, that equals more strength.
as in:
3rd and 4th together = strong
3rd finger alone = weaker
4th finger alone = weaker
Third and fourth are significantly less independant than first and second, and significantly less strong, so support third and fourth whenever you can to *increase* dexterity.
"Four finger technique" is great, but when you're *not* using it, don't leave 3rd or 4th unnecessarily unsupported!
It may not be proper ettiquette, but I started on electric bass and I use the third finger frequently. It often make certain passages easier (ask the other bassist in my section who doesn't use the 3rd finger). I don't use it often, but habit brings it back into play, which is not always a bad thing.
also, with time and proper exercise. We should be ab;e to make our 3rd finger strong enough. I know a few people who have nearly equall strenght throughout their hand.
I often use my third finger for minor third intervals near the neck joint. I also find that the third finger is usually more in tune when it's used for a leading tone instead of the middle finger. I've always found it to terribly awkward to finger the sixth, seventh, and octave with 1 2 & 4 in the upper positions. Like KPO said, it's important to support it just like you would the fourth finger.
My instructor is currently ingraining the Simandle in me since I'm a first year doublebassist. However, he is a practical guy who uses what works. There is a tune he's playing in our orchestra that requires a trill kind of thing from low F to G#, I think. So he actually had to use thumb and third finger in the 1/2 position! For some reason, he hadn't thought to tune up a half step, but that's what his whole section ended up doing, playing thumb all the way up there! Just thought I'd share.
- Nov 6, 2001
- 303
- 56
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar amps Endorsing Artist: Fodera Guitars
i use 4 finger technique and my pinky is very strong as well as my 3rd. Needless to say, my compatriots hate me for that.
(overture to marriage of figaro is soooo easy) lol
I dont think that it is a wrong thing but i do teach my students the simandl ways first....then the bassius method comes when a solid foundation of position and intonation is in place.
(overture to marriage of figaro is soooo easy) lol
I dont think that it is a wrong thing but i do teach my students the simandl ways first....then the bassius method comes when a solid foundation of position and intonation is in place.
Speaking as a relative DB beginner who started on BG, I found the that Simandl technique made it much easier to locate the intervals. I tend to use that technique on BG in the lower positions now as well, particularly on fretless. I wonder how the early Fender bass player coming from the DB did it?
Is that lol, or is that mwaahaaahaaahaaahaa?
Now that I can do thumb position below the harmonic, I understand better why many doublebassists shy away from the 4-finger effect.
I've been studying the Bottesini Elegy off and on, and I still love doing the chromatic run 0-1-2-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-3, because the shifts get to happen on the beat. I just don't care for the pulse that occurs with 1-2-4 all the way up. Guess thumb position could work for it that way too, though.
Hi-
What is the "proper" method for trills involving the 4th finger? Do you use just the 4th, or 3+4 together? I feel like I get a better sound with just the 4th, but it may just be a bad habit. Trilling with 3+4 seems kinda awkward, but so did using 3+4 together when I first started!
-Del
What is the "proper" method for trills involving the 4th finger? Do you use just the 4th, or 3+4 together? I feel like I get a better sound with just the 4th, but it may just be a bad habit. Trilling with 3+4 seems kinda awkward, but so did using 3+4 together when I first started!
-Del
delbass said:
Maybe personal preference will decide this for you in the end, but I always find it sounds cleaner and *more measured* when 3+4 act together, in the case of trills.
I love the 4-finger stuff, but in the end: it has to *sound* good.
My teacher hates it when I do so, but I often use the fourth finger to pick off a G harmonic ("VI position") as a pivot or extension technique when the rest of what I'm doing is a half position or more below that.
Pete G said:
Pete
I do that to. Except if my case, my teacher encourges it in certain curcumstances. His teacher was Eugene Levinson, who doesn't seem to be restricted by any of the existing standard methods. Generally I'm a traditionallist and feel that one should at least attempt to learn a passage using Simandl rules before discarding them all together in favor of a "what ever works best" approach. I like to play four finger technique at fourth through sixth postion. I just makes sense for a lot of things and I can play faster that way since I have spent time using 1-2-3-4 on guitar and slab.
Jon
I've just recently started using the fourth finger to reach a stopped G -- not just harmonic -- as an extension in a legato passage that ascends (slurred) E-F-G. I play it 1-2- extension to 4 on the G, then play the next three legato notes coming down, (slurred) F-E-D, using 4-2-extension to 1. Keeps me from having to shift in the middle of each of the slurs, and it works pretty well.
Hi ! This is very interesting.
In both Nanny and Vance methods, the 3rd finger is not used in the lower positions. But I agree with many of you, get the job done, whatever it takes. I tend to use the 3rd finger for forths with the 2nd or the 4th finger, or whenever instinctivly, this finger volunteers ! I also use low thumb positions. The "So what" riff is so easier that way.
I wish to add to this reflection that the technique without the 3rd finger tends to get more naturally the notes in good intonation. Stretching the hand can be really effective but requires extra care in matters of pitch.
I rather use the 3rd finder in jazz pizz than in bowin situation.
In both Nanny and Vance methods, the 3rd finger is not used in the lower positions. But I agree with many of you, get the job done, whatever it takes. I tend to use the 3rd finger for forths with the 2nd or the 4th finger, or whenever instinctivly, this finger volunteers ! I also use low thumb positions. The "So what" riff is so easier that way.
I wish to add to this reflection that the technique without the 3rd finger tends to get more naturally the notes in good intonation. Stretching the hand can be really effective but requires extra care in matters of pitch.
I rather use the 3rd finder in jazz pizz than in bowin situation.
