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4-string OK, 5-string not OK

anzoid

anzoid

Apr 17, 2014
43
23
53
#1
Not sure where to start on this one - a couple of years ago I was playing an ESP 5-string as my only bass. Every time I played I ended up with left shoulder pain to the point I got it checked out and was told I had crystallisation in the ligaments (I think that's what it was...) Eventually I just stopped playing and sold off my kit and resigned myself to not playing again (wasn't in a good place generally at the time so it seemed like the solution).

Fast forward to now - I missed playing too much and have been buying and selling, wheeling and dealing to find a couple of basses I like. Been playing 4-strings and have had no shoulder problems at all. Last week I took delivery of a Peavey Millenium BXP 5-string. Nice piece of kit - played it out for the first time today and... instant shoulder pain.

I can't think what I might be doing wrong. I have the guitar at my "normal" height and it doesn't feel at all too much of a stretch when I'm playing. The range of movement seems to be similar - playing perhaps slightly more around the 5th fret and dropping onto the D from time to time rather than reaching out to the E.

So, the question - can you guys suggest ways I might be able to adjust position or playing style or am I just not built for 5-string?
 
#3
What kind of strap are you using? I use wide straps on all of my basses.
I have had two 5 strings. An Ibanez BTB and a Warwick Corvette. The Ibanez is heavy, I think it comes in at 11 pounds. I can feel it. The Warwick, not so much. I think it's 10 pounds but it feels lighter than my 4 strings. Could be that it's a 34" scale and bringing the headstock back that extra inch in to the center helps balance it and not put so much on my left shoulder. Maybe that's a factor?
 
#4
The 5-string is lighter than either of my 4-strings. Top horn comes up level with the 11th fret on the 5-string and to the 12th fret on the 4-strings. Strap on the 5-string is about 1cm narrower than the one I use on the other two - maybe that's the place to start, swap the straps around.
 
#5
anzoid said:
The 5-string is lighter than either of my 4-strings. Top horn comes up level with the 11th fret on the 5-string and to the 12th fret on the 4-strings. Strap on the 5-string is about 1cm narrower than the one I use on the other two - maybe that's the place to start, swap the straps around.
Click to expand...

I'd definitely do that, or even buy a wider strap at some point, but also take into consideration that the Peavey is a 35" scale, which makes you reach a bit further out, which will cause a bit of extra strain on your shoulder as well. It could possibly be a 35" scale thing.

How does it work out when you're playing sitting down?
 
#7
I was going to ask the same thing: is the pain from the weight of the bass on your shoulder or is it related to the ergonomics or position of your fretting hand?

If it is the weight of the bass, the obvious thing would be to try and find the lightest bass possible as well as to make it as comfortable as possible on your shoulder with a wide and comfy strap.
 
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#8
Firstly - thank you all for the advice.
Hadn't considered the scale length of the guitar... can't do much to change that though it is something to think about in deciding whether it's a keeper. I think the best place to start is going to be trying out some different straps - the wider the better by the sounds of it. Will try out making a video - though I won't post it here - that would be too much for anybody to have to see :D
 
#9
Assuming that your problem is in fact technique-related, my suggestion would be to go straight to the best possible solution: Starting with a diagnosis from a well-qualified instructor.

Without working with someone who has significant instructional experience in technique and physiology, who provides the opportunity to be observed and instructed in person, in real time, your options for getting to the bottom of this problem are going to be limited.

MM
 
#10
My first instinct was the scale length of the bass as well, since the ESP is a 35" scale. Personally, I can play a 34" scale all day without pain, but a 35" scale is uncomfortable for me.
I looked up the Peavey Millenium BXP 5-string, and though it has a 34" scale, ask yourself how far left of your body the nut of the bass lies. This depends not only upon the strap, but also upon the placement of the bridge in relation to the strap pin.

Experimenting with the strap is a good idea. You could also try sitting down and adjusting the position of the bass.

When you play pain-free, you never realize how close you are to a painful situation. Bass can place the arms and wrists in extreme positions. A small adjustment could save your five-string career!
 
#11
It could also have to do with the design of the bass; depending on the size of the body and length of the upper horn it can place the fretting hand ar slightly different distance out from your body. Check if the fiver maybe makes you hold your arm a bit further out, that could put more strain on your shoulder and neck muscles.

EDIT: I should read before writing, I think G&L above pretty much said that already.
 
#13
I think that G&L and FretNoMore have nailed it - just spent some time standing in front of a reflective surface (maybe a little more "hands on" than making a video, though I still need to do that too) and watching how the different basses sat. At the same height the Peavey sits a good inch to two inches further to the left and my hand position is different. Standing the guitars back-to-back the Peavey is about two inches "taller" from strap pin to strap pin than either of my 4-stringers.

On the 4-strings I don't hook my thumb over the neck but the end of my thumb is close to the back edge of the fretboard. On the 5er it's further/lower back towards the flatter back of the neck. The fretboard radiuses appear similar but the 4-strings are just more comfortable and I don't get that feeling of "pulling" in my shoulder that I get instantly from the Peavey - swapping the straps doesn't make any difference (although my squier vm jazz neck dives with the narrower strip which is a bit slippy anyway).

> When you play pain-free, you never realize how close you are to a painful situation.
This may be the thing, over the years I've had aches and pains from playing but nothing like I had with the shoulder a couple of years back. So when I got the first twinge of that playing today my first thought was "oh no, not again..." Because I had the 4-strings on hand to compare with it finally dawned on me that it possibly wasn't bass playing per se that was the problem, but the type of bass I was playing.

Mystic Michael, I like the idea of seeing an instructor though I know of none round where I live and there ain't much of a budget for that kind of thing at the moment - keep spending the money on guitars in the never ending quest to find "the one" :D - although I feel like I'm getting close...

I can't thank you all enough for the advice and suggestions...
 
#14
raventepes said:
I'd definitely do that, or even buy a wider strap at some point, but also take into consideration that the Peavey is a 35" scale, which makes you reach a bit further out, which will cause a bit of extra strain on your shoulder as well. It could possibly be a 35" scale thing.

How does it work out when you're playing sitting down?
Click to expand...
He's not reaching further out with the 5 string. The top horn goes to the 11th fret to compensate for this. What's likely happening is that the body of the 5 string is larger and it's shifting the way the weight sits on his shoulder by changing the strap angle.
 
#15
anzoid said:
> When you play pain-free, you never realize how close you are to a painful situation.
This may be the thing, over the years I've had aches and pains from playing...
Click to expand...
Stop right there! You shouldn't have aches and pains from the mere act of playing. I would seriously question my technique if I had any pains whatsoever.
 
#16
JimmyM - I'm not too woried about the aches and pains - I have long-term problems with my back, neck and shoulders (and other joints) that whilst they are annoying do generally mean that any activity I undertake is likely to leave me in pain at some point. I've just decided with bass that it's worth it for the joy I get from playing :) The thing with playing the 5-string was that the pain that started up was outside of my normal range of pain for everyday activities - if I continue with it I'll get to the point where I can't play anything at all, which is where I ended up a few years ago.
 
#18
anzoid said:
JimmyM - I'm not too woried about the aches and pains - I have long-term problems with my back, neck and shoulders (and other joints) that whilst they are annoying do generally mean that any activity I undertake is likely to leave me in pain at some point. I've just decided with bass that it's worth it for the joy I get from playing :) The thing with playing the 5-string was that the pain that started up was outside of my normal range of pain for everyday activities - if I continue with it I'll get to the point where I can't play anything at all, which is where I ended up a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Well injuries or things like arthritis aside, playing bass in and of itself should never cause pain, and I have to admit to being a little concerned about technique issues when someone tells me a 5 hurts but not a 4. I would still maybe schedule a couple visits with a teacher who is versed in pain-free techniques. Might even be a possibility he or she could give you strategies for dealing with your condition that at least make it possible to play a 5 if you'd like. It's certainly not a necessity to play a 5 in most genres, but it should be your choice, not your body's ;)
 
#19
JustForSport, without dragging out measuring equipment I'd guess neck angle is around 40 degrees from horizontal (50 from vertical :D). Usually quite comfy when playing.

JimmyM, I should have been more precise in my explanation - I don't tend to get pain from actually playing the bass - it's more that because of the condition I have (Fibromyalgia + neck/spine issues) I tend to suffer after pretty much any activity more than just sitting around. Constant pain becomes the new normal but you still recognise the stuff that is outside the usual parameters. Up until I bought my first 5-string (not counting an awful Westfield back in the 90s) I didn't have any problems. When I did then get severe shoulder pain I figured it was just from playing bass. I'd had a break of a few years not playing bass and between times the Fibro stuff kicked in and turned my world upside down. I'd never considered that the extra stretch of a 35" scale 5-er was the source rather than just general bass playing. It's only being able to compare now that the lightbulb has gone on and I've tried to work out what is happening.

So, in short - pain after playing 4-string = normal. Pain after playing 5-string = not normal :D And thanks to all of your (the collective you) advice I think I've worked out why.

Edit to add:
I think G&L's comment "When you play pain-free, you never realize how close you are to a painful situation." probably encapsulates things - the slight extra stretch of the 5-er is enough to go from pain-free (ignoring the background pain) to painful.
 

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