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4 Strings vs 5 Strings - Help needed for modern Praise & Worship

#21
I play praise and worship at my church (same bands as the ones you mention) and I use a 4 string at the moment. I play 2-3 times a week, and sometimes fill in at another local church. I have owned 5 string and 6 string basses, and always felt that was overkill. The only times where I have wished that had more range was when I played with a keyboard player who tended to use their left hand too much. In other words, playing too close on keys to the sonic space I was occupying. Doesn't happen too often, but it does happen. Otherwise, 4 string has never been a problem with the keys we tend to play stuff in. Something you could do is watch some YouTube videos of live sets of the bands you are trying to emulate. Hillsong player tends to use a 5 string, Bethel (and Elevation, another popular one) tends to use 4's. I understand that this assumes they are playing in the same key that you would, which is not always the case. Also, the 4 players might be string BEAD...I have not heard that but who knows.

With that being said, I would just buy what you want. Is the extra cash well spent? Depends on how much, but if it makes you feel more comfortable with what you are playing, hard to put a value on that. I guess I'd say do what you think would set you up for the most success and the best outcome. If that's 5, buy a 5. Also, look used - there are deals to be had and you may find out you don't need to spend as much as you assume. Good luck and God bless!
 
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#23
I have always played 4 string bass at my church until recently. Now I play a 5 string fretless and find the B string very handy as we play in Bb, Ab, F and Eb a lot. The extra low notes are sound great in flat keys. If possible, try a 5 and see how it fits into the keys your team plays in. Good luck. :D
 
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#25
jowes said:
I am a new bass player currently playing in Church. Our church focusses songs primarily on Hillsong, Bethel and the early Hosanna/Vineyard stuff. I have only played a ESP LTD B10 (which appears to me to be a precision style bass) 4 string guitar and the tone seems awfully inadequate for this stuff. While for some songs it does sound well, for the most I am struggling to get the right mix of treble and bass and of course this makes everyone else disturbed!

Now I have decided to upgrade to a Squier Jazz Guitar, either the VM or deluxe variant. Now my question is, will the $ spent for a 5 string be worth it? I've searched many forums and they all seem to talk about added benefit for a E-flat scale with a 5 string. In my playing of songs in C, D, D#, I have not felt the need for a 5th string most of the time. However I do feel limited when playing in E or F scale. For Eg. our church plays '10000 Reasons' in F scale and its always a struggle to do a 'F, E, D' note sequence when I play F note in the 4th string.

So my question is - Do gospel bassists play F scale an octave up usually? If not how do they handle the F to Dminor chord sequence? An answer to this will help me to take a call on whether a 5 string is worth it.
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For church? Ken Smith six string of course! But seriously, a 5 string, especially an inexpensive one with a big neck, may be more trouble than an asset if you're not locked in on the basics with a 4. And if you haven't found the right tone yet, a B string isn't going to make that any easier.

It seems like you have a song that would be absolutely suited to a low B string. But are you looking for the right reason? Think of it this way, F is a very common jazz key, and people have been playing F to D minor progressions on upright 4 string basses for about 100 years now (tuba was used in the really old days), so first you should figure out how to best manage that movement yourself on a 4 string. There are many "standard" ways to handle that movement, some players will go low F low E to D, you could also start the F walk down on the D string, or the A string... The best players will be able to do any combination, depending on what sounds best. If you can't handle that passage decently on a four string, I can't recommend bumping up to a five, yet. The extra size of the neck and another string to keep muted will probably make things more difficult than easier.

As for the tone issue, good technique, good strings and a good amp are more important than the pickup holder (bass). Now of course, a $2000 bass is going to "sound better" than a $200 bass, but I guarantee I could sit in with your band with your $200 bass. There's no very easy way to describe this, but I'll try. Start with your volume and tone knob cranked up all the way on your bass and leave those where they are, make all your adjustments on your amp. Start with everything flat on the amp. First find the VOLUME that fits best with the band *while you are all playing.* A lot of problems can be solved just by balancing your volume correctly with everyone else. Is it too muddy and boomy? Start slowly removing bass then. Is it not muddy, but unclear? try adding some mids or treble; mids are generally where the "note" is, and treble is where the presence or clarity is. The point is, start with everything flat, and make minor or major adjustments as necessary, based on the band's overall sound, because what sounds good for you solo, in many cases has nothing to do with what sounds good in a mix. And generally speaking, What might sound too "thin and crisp" on its own, actually sounds good when mixed with other instruments. I find It's rare to need to boost the bass on a decent modern amp.

Hope that's helpful and good luck!
 
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#26
I started playing praise & worship (contemporary) in 2008, with a 4 string, it worked fine for many years- however, I decided to buy my first 5 (A Modulus Quantum 5) in the fall 2014.. I couldn't be happier, the 5 is actually easier to play for me, due to less positional shifting. And the Low B on the Modulus is a thing of beauty. So, the transition was a no brainer for me, our WL was really happy with the 5. My Modulus has added a depth & thickness to our mix- Plus, the 5 is very common in many genres these days- it has worked out great for me. The extra low notes, when needed, are nice to have.
 
#27
Dan_reeves said:
. . . . this assumes they are playing in the same key that you would, which is not always the case. Also, the 4 players might be string BEAD.. . . . !
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I strung and tuned my 4-string to BEAD as an experiment several years ago. Haven't got out my heavy 5-string since and haven't missed the G string one bit!

I play Praise & Worship and anything else I want just fine without any problems. Try it before going to a 5-er.
 
#28
I used to play 4 exclusively.... Bought a fiver on a whim and never went back.

For P&W its a great option for many of the reasons stated here....

I can play it like a four if I want.... But when a song is in Db or Eb ( you will get those... Even if you have not yet... Trust me.... Those are " popular keys" for many P&W songs.... ) The B string really comes in handy.

Also.... Nice to be able to do 3 octaves without much movement....

All in all...A great choice...Required? No.....but really handy.....

And fun!!!!

I echo what others have said and get a good B.... You'll use it more...

Peace

Doug
 
#29
I've played P&W for many years. When I started, I played my BEAD basses but finally decided it wasn't really necessary. Nice to have the low Eb and D on some tunes, but my EADG fours, strung with flats have plenty of fundamental in the higher register and sound great. Nothing wrong with getting a fiver, but don't base your decision on "needing" it for P&W music.
 
#30
Spin Doctor said:
To me, if you want an authentic sound for modern gospel, you need a 5 string. If you wanna do "Black" Gospel, it's essential. Yeah I suppose you can get away with not having one (nah, not really), but if I'm the MD and you can't come correct when it comes to the music, I will find someone who can.
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I play multiple instruments in several churches. And I own a 5 string. But unless you pay, and/or provide the instrument , I play what I want. I'm willing to put up with a lot more if I am paid.

If you do pay your musicians, then disregard this response. I've just played at several churches where the MD wants things to sound like a band's original song, but doesn't provide accurate chord charts, reasonable prep time, and the church doesn't have enough musicians to pull off the original anyway (hard for one guitar player to cover 3 separate parts simultaneously). And they expect the musicians to volunteer their time.

Sorry for the off topic response OP.
 
#31
its nice to have-

so many times in these situations, the pianist will lead the group. he will want to play in C, Bb, F and Eb a lot of the time. there is your answer.
the guitar friendly keys aren't used as much and you will be the one transposing, not him usually.
recent trends are to compromise to the key of D IME
 
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#33
My only gig is with the worship band at my church, contemporary Christian music:Hillsong, elevation, Planet shakers, etc. Either a P , J or SR are perfect for this type of music in my opinion, I used to play 4 strings but we often play the songs below the original key and I got tired of not being able to keep the same pattern, the B string opened a new world to me, I dont use it as "an effect" to me is just another 21 notes that allow me to keep the low end with less effort. At this point of my life I dont see myself buying a four string anytime soon.
 
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#34
I played at my church for years, I played a 5 string. Really worked well because many of our songs were in E & F. Plus, if the sanctuary is larger, the B string played some gives a nice low note. I have a ESP/LTD B205 that was great for church. Active emgs really made a difference. Sounds as good as any bass around. When playing in F I would start on 3rd string 8th fret which is a little high then you can octave down to the 5th string 6th fret. Consider a bass with active pickups. A active bass has a 'bigger' bass sound especially when you play the 5th. then you can add a little treble for a punch.
Keep your 4 string, if you play at a coffee house, it will fit the venue better.
 
#35
I have found the extra string to be especially handy for playing with the church band. There was a worship leader that absolutely loved to play in Eb. It's awesome to have low notes where low notes belong in spite of where the vocalists are comfortable singing.

Do the 5. You'll like it.
 
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#38
Been playing P&W at the same church for about 4 years now. Same type of songs as OP stated. Started with a 4 string, but have transitioned to a 5 over the last year or so. I find the low B can add a great deal to this style of music if used in moderation like subtle intros or outros, but can muddy things up in a hurry with the full band in swing - especially a heavy left hand on keyboards, so you have to be careful. We mostly have male leads, so song keys lend themselves well to the lower notes.

I took to the 5 well, but don't care for the tighter string spacing and larger neck, so right now I am working with a P bass that I have modded BEAD. So far I am liking it, so maybe that could be an option.

Also, as some have said, look into a good preamp pedal. I am using the VT Bass pedal and it works great!
 
#39
pappabass said:
I played at my church for years, I played a 5 string. Really worked well because many of our songs were in E & F. Plus, if the sanctuary is larger, the B string played some gives a nice low note. I have a ESP/LTD B205 that was great for church. Active emgs really made a difference. Sounds as good as any bass around. When playing in F I would start on 3rd string 8th fret which is a little high then you can octave down to the 5th string 6th fret. Consider a bass with active pickups. A active bass has a 'bigger' bass sound especially when you play the 5th. then you can add a little treble for a punch.
Keep your 4 string, if you play at a coffee house, it will fit the venue better.
Click to expand...

I'm playing basically the same, except mine is a B-405 also with the EMG's, A guy at the church i'm at now plays a Jazz Bass with active EMG single coils also sounds great.
 
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