Double Bass 4 weeks without an amp.......it's addictive!

[Stewthebassman]

I've been playing in this little quartet for about a year and a half now. I was able to talk the other three into rehearsals sans amps pretty easy. Even the vocalist is singing with no mic. So (I guess it's catching) I was able to score a gig bi-weekly at this place that has less than 10 tables and they have to remove 2 of them so we can fit in a corner. The place is so small I was able to convince the band to try it without amps. It is really a great thing to do. I wish it were that way all the time.

As far as training goes, it's mostly the drummer. The guitarist is pretty professional and the singer doubles on flute and sax and is doing well controlling the sax. So anyway, the guitarist and I agree that the drummer needs training. So what we've decided is that everytime we get to a point where we can't hear ourselves, he is going to suddenly find that he is playing a drum solo. When he calms down, we'll come back in. Who knows if that will work or not. Aside from being a little loud, he's a great drummer. Definitely worth training.

Wow....consensual amplessness......awesome! Imagine, an ensemble listening to each other like that......sometime drummers need to learn to just relax and then everything goes so much better....is he using brushes already?

 

[Michael Case]

But this summer we'll be back out on the patio, competing with the motorcycles and jets and cars that drive by. :-( So at least I'll have a clue how I really want to sound now, having played so many weeks "sans amp".

I suggest you try playing outdoors without the amp. I spent a summer in Central Park playing without an amp and people heard me loud and clear. A few friends of mine (one of them a bass player too) saw me there and expressed surprise at how loud the bass was without an amp. The more you push your amp-less limits the more you'll be able to play amp-less.

 

[Silversorcerer]

Wow....consensual amplessness......awesome! Imagine, an ensemble listening to each other like that......sometime drummers need to learn to just relax and then everything goes so much better....is he using brushes already?

Yes, we got him onto the brushes a while back actually, although there are a few numbers where he picks up the sticks. Brushes are deceptive. While they are definitely capable of fine dynamic nuance, if one snaps a brush like a whip, it can hit pretty loud. The bundled bamboo is more limiting, but truly I've found in playing with three really pro drummers that dynamic nuance is part of refined style in the hands and mind.

I saw Marlon Patton (Trey Wright's jazz group) working with sticks one night and that was the revelation. He only had 3 drums, bass, snare, & floor tom. He also had a ride and a high-hat. He could get so much variation in dynamic and sound with that kit and sticks. It was amazing. After that I sort of considered brushes a kind of band-aid. If someone plays too loud, they will still play too loud with brushes. It really is about listening to the other players and one just knows that in the center of a trap set a loud drummer probably doesn't hear acoustic level strings.

Out of the three drummers I regularly play with, ironically, it is the fusion drummer and the rock drummer that have the more subtle nuanced playing style. The common factor;- they are both over 45 years old and have a lot more experience under their belt than the other fellow.

I think his other playing situations have a lot to do with it also. He plays in two other bands that have a flat dynamic;- as loud as the amplified bassist and guitarist can get. In both those groups he is not the culprit and to hear him the drums need to be mic'd. So those bands are training him the other way. I think maybe when the guitarist and I start laying out and leaving him wondering where we went, because at the sound level I'm talking about it will take a few measures for it to dawn on him;- then he might figure it out. Hopefully it doesn't backfire, but I think it's worth a try. I can't really figure out how else to approach it. He's really sensitive to verbal critique. What complicates it is that we play some other gigs in outdoor situations with large crowds where everyone has to be amped. So it is a challenge to find a good balance.

I do truly foresee a day when I will be an acoustic only guy. Everyone in the rock band is already wearing plugs. The fusion band is only 3 of us and these are the most pro fellows I work with and we don't have any of those issues no matter where we are playing or at what level. We are also making it all up as we go along so everyone must listen to the other two players or we will totally lose the vibe. Unfortunately that is also the least marketable music so if I want to make money I have to play with the loud situations too.

 

[Andy Allen]

I have, as per the title of this thread, now spent four weeks without an amp on my Friday night piano/bass duo gig. The next four weeks should be even more interesting, as the gig has been extended to Friday and Saturday for the month of April, so I'll be ampless two nights a week. By the end of the month I should really know what I'm doing.

The accuracy and efficiency that I'm trying to develop to make the most of the bass acoustically is definitely helping on my amplified gigs - and as I get more acoustic sound out of my bass I'm hoping to be able to reduce the amplified component.

Andy

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Once a week, I do a duo gig with a really nice, Bill Evans/Brad Mehldau-influenced pianist in a room that's perfectly suited to acoustic playing (just did it last night). It's a small lounge and bar that opens out to a really nice outdoor fine dining restaurant. What makes it really special is the building's design; it's a round fieldstone building with a conical open ceiling, very high and cathedral-like. To use an amp in there would be ludicrous.... the bass actually sounds bigger and louder without one. Great fun every Saturday.

Last night, with my Anima-strung LaScala, I commented to the pianist, "I really love playing acoustically", and he looked down at the spot where the amp would be, and said "Damn... I didn't even realize!"

 

[Michael Case]

So you're back to Animas now eh Marcus?

 

[Stewthebassman]

My best friend and often used drummer is a rock drummer, first and foremost. Whenever I get a call for a drummer he is my guy, and over the past few years he has improved in his jazz a lot. First I made him use brushes (I bought him some nice ones for his birthday one year lol!), and then I told him to stop being so formulaic, and to toss all his training out the window and just play....Night and day!! Some people are trainable, I guess, and it is worth the time!

 

[Stewthebassman]

I have, as per the title of this thread, now spent four weeks without an amp on my Friday night piano/bass duo gig. The next four weeks should be even more interesting, as the gig has been extended to Friday and Saturday for the month of April, so I'll be ampless two nights a week. By the end of the month I should really know what I'm doing.

The accuracy and efficiency that I'm trying to develop to make the most of the bass acoustically is definitely helping on my amplified gigs - and as I get more acoustic sound out of my bass I'm hoping to be able to reduce the amplified component.

Andy

Congrats, Andy, always nice when they want more, eh?

I too am thinking that when I really need an amp, I'll be able to use it minimally so as to feel my bass like I do now.

This summer I will try and play my patio gig ampless, but the competition from the cars and motorcycles and airplanes is intense....it will be interesting indeed. At least my hands are in much better shape now than last summer.

We played in a high ceilinged room today for a photo exhibit. It was dreadul, really, but everyone heard me fine (except me!). I made it through, but it was tiring. Did everything I could to get the most sound out of the strings.


What are Animas???

 

[Michael Case]

Velvet Animas, they are a gut like string. They are low tension and require a slightly higher string height, but the low tension balences the higher SH. They have a big gut like sound and bring out the volume of most basses they are put on. The sad part is they are dreadful for arco. For more information on Animas search the string forum.

 

[damonsmith]

I don't use an amp for the rare jazz gigs I play, then I at least get the sound right for starters!
I rarely use one, even in loud contexts. If you get the energy from your shoulders and have a good, loud bass you can really get through. The instrument will do a lot more than most people think.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

So you're back to Animas now eh Marcus?

Yup... just playing around. Pizz is hard to beat. Loud loud.

 

[Michael Case]

Yup... just playing around. Pizz is hard to beat. Loud loud.

The pizz sound of Animas almost makes want to put the bow in a dark corner, never to be seen again. But, then I remember that I dislike certain neighbors and have some self loathing issues and start doing arco.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I can actually get a handle on the Animas with the bow if I give it some time. They just aren't as easy as Spiros for me... not by a long shot.

 

[Silversorcerer]

Congrats, Andy, always nice when they want more, eh?

I too am thinking that when I really need an amp, I'll be able to use it minimally so as to feel my bass like I do now.

This summer I will try and play my patio gig ampless, but the competition from the cars and motorcycles and airplanes is intense....it will be interesting indeed. At least my hands are in much better shape now than last summer.

We played in a high ceilinged room today for a photo exhibit. It was dreadul, really, but everyone heard me fine (except me!). I made it through, but it was tiring. Did everything I could to get the most sound out of the strings.


What are Animas???

Playing next to a busy road is a real challenge for acoustic playing. Outdoors at a music festival in the remote hills, a double bass sounds huge. Next to a busy intersection or adjacent to a road, it nearly disappears. Some folk players I was busking with for a while used to get in the recessed glass entry way of a closed camera shop to play sidewalk style. That entry way really helped us project. Since then, I've always tried to get my bass into a corner if I am going without the amp. About 4-5 feet from hard walls like plaster and brick seems to help a good bit.

I never realized how noisy roads were until I got an ipod for when I walk the dog. If I turn it up loud enough to hear over traffic it is uncomfortably loud.

I also find that my bass is much louder arco than pizz. So I have started learning my jazz lines with the bow. Believe it or not, Footprints is really interesting as an arco line.

 

[Stewthebassman]

Velvert Animas........sounds interesting! It is time for string change....................

 

[Michael Case]

I spent some time busking in the NYC subway with trumpet and drums without an amp, the only time I had any serious trouble hearing myself was when two trains pulled in and out together. The ear plugs I was wearing didn't help the matter any. It can be done.

 

[Stewthebassman]

So tonight was interesting...there was about 35 people in the dining room, so the amp was a necessity.....had it cranked up tp 75%....but the last 6 gigs playing accoustic has strengthened my hands so much that it was like playing a new bass...the A and E strings were huge.....and my solos flowed super freely for once......maybe 'cause I couldn't hear myself...haha!! What great training though, I really enjoyed my sound.

 

[Eli_Upright12]

Believe it or not, Footprints is really interesting as an arco line.

Hell yeah its great, played in a little ensemble and we played that and i would start my solo with part of the head with the bow.

 

[Deleted member 5551]

I found this thread while looking for another one.

I too had the pleasure of playing without an amp. For me, it was our school's production of "The Mystery of Edwin Drood". We had an extremely small pit-violin, trumpet, reed doubler, hot rods w/the drummer, and a piano [electronic keyboard]. The theater we were playing in was pretty small.

I forgot how great it feels to play without an amp. The blend of the instruments sounded much more natural and just the sound of my bass i felt was much better.

In guitar ensemble-there were a few days where John McLean [our teacher/coach] would bring in an acoustic guitar and tell us to match his level. For me? I just shut off the amp and let the bass body do the work. I loved those days. I feel i play more simple when i don't have an amp as i'm pulling a bit harder and with more intent so the ideas are projected.