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Double Bass 5/8 which one?

BassGreaser

BassGreaser

Aug 22, 2002
4,013
1,663
Austin, TX
#1
So I'll be in the market to buy a new bass to replace my Strunal 5/20 hybrid that I sold a few years ago.

Ideally I'm interested in a 5/8 sized hybrid that I'll string with guts.

Who is making a great 5/8 hybrid bass these days?
 
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#2
Is there a particular reason you are looking for a 5/8 instead of a 3/4? If your answer is something along the lines of it takes up less space, is easier to travel with etc. while that might be true, the difference is a few inches or less in any one direction, so you've still got a double bass sized/shaped object to deal with. If you've got other reasons, that's up to you.

Lots of people really enjoy their Shen's and Upton's around here, and those are good "brands" to look into. Both make 5/8 and 3/4 hybrids. Shen lists their SB190 5/8 on their website, with a carved spruce top, solid willow ribs, and ply maple back. Robertson's in Albuquerque is a Shen dealer if you're still in New Mexico. They likely won't have one in stock, but they should have a few 3/4 Shens so you can play a few and get a feel for them and decide if you want to order the 5/8. Upton has a 5/8 option, and given their popularity they tend to make most basses to order instead of having dozens lying around if you want to try a few out. That also gives you the freedom to customize which could be something you are interested in.

Either way you have considerably more options and flexibility if you go with a 3/4. Depending on the size of the shop they might have a few of them around, and if they don't they might be willing to bring one in without you committing to purchasing it, as they are a lot easier sell than a 5/8. With the 5/8, you are pretty unlikely to find one in a shop, and they will likely ask that you commit to purchasing it if they bring it in because it's a harder sell on their end if you don't. Make a few phone calls, see who's got what available, and to see what kind of a price range you're looking at.
 
#5
5'6" need not be a barrier. Tom Martin is 5'5", and makes playing on some of the biggest basses that have ever been made look close to effortless. There are plenty of us that aren't giants who get around 3/4 size instruments with ease. While overall dimensions can play a role, things like the slope of the shoulders, the depth of the ribs, overstand, and even the posture you use to play the instrument can make a big difference. I had the opportunity to play on Rich Wagor's "SuperKarr" when I was visiting Upton, and while it is a HUGE instrument, it was really easy to get around. As someone who isn't particularly tall myself with small hands, I never thought playing a 4/4 size instrument would even be a possibility. After playing that bass, I realized that fractional sizes are just numbers, and there are a lot more pieces to the puzzle of whether or not a bass and a bassist are a good fit for each other.

The Shen SB190 5/8, or another Shen might be exactly what you are looking for. There are plenty of posts here about Shens, and you might even find some discussion on the 5/8 model if you dig deep enough. The search function can sometimes come up with some great stuff, but you might have to try a few different variants of "Shen 5/8" because I believe there is a far more common 3/4 SB190 that would likely dominate discussion.

I can't really comment on the Engelhardt, as my only experience with them is their cheaper student instruments often in a sad state of repair in school programs. You would know your old Strunal better than anyone, but you also have to keep in mind it may have seen some trauma since last you met, the current owner may not wish to sell, and if you already sold it once, it might not be the bass for you.

Best of luck on your hunt.
 
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#6
MikeCanada said:
5'6" need not be a barrier. Tom Martin is 5'5", and makes playing on some of the biggest basses that have ever been made look close to effortless. There are plenty of us that aren't giants who get around 3/4 size instruments with ease. While overall dimensions can play a role, things like the slope of the shoulders, the depth of the ribs, overstand, and even the posture you use to play the instrument can make a big difference. I had the opportunity to play on Rich Wagor's "SuperKarr" when I was visiting Upton, and while it is a HUGE instrument, it was really easy to get around. As someone who isn't particularly tall myself with small hands, I never thought playing a 4/4 size instrument would even be a possibility. After playing that bass, I realized that fractional sizes are just numbers, and there are a lot more pieces to the puzzle of whether or not a bass and a bassist are a good fit for each other.

The Shen SB190 5/8, or another Shen might be exactly what you are looking for. There are plenty of posts here about Shens, and you might even find some discussion on the 5/8 model if you dig deep enough. The search function can sometimes come up with some great stuff, but you might have to try a few different variants of "Shen 5/8" because I believe there is a far more common 3/4 SB190 that would likely dominate discussion.

I can't really comment on the Engelhardt, as my only experience with them is their cheaper student instruments often in a sad state of repair in school programs. You would know your old Strunal better than anyone, but you also have to keep in mind it may have seen some trauma since last you met, the current owner may not wish to sell, and if you already sold it once, it might not be the bass for you.

Best of luck on your hunt.
Click to expand...

I guess bass sizes can be confusing. I had been playing my restored German "3/4" for years, but had no idea that it was a 7/8 until I took it Shank Strings for repairs. I can't remember any fingering problems. Luckily it has an Eb neck.
 
#7
Programming note: Upton Basses run big. Their standard size, non-Karr "3/4" is close to what many would call a 7/8. I've talked to a few people who own Upton 5/8 basses, who describe them as roughly the size we're used to calling a 3/4 bass. I've never played an Upton 5/8 myself.

I have, however, played a Shen SB190 5/8. It was a nice little bass, albeit quiet pizz strung with Helicore Hybrids which are far from my favorite string. I considered buying it until I found a Rogeri Willow upstairs at that same dealership. The Rogeri was the second Shen I've owned, and I found them to be surprisingly well-built and good-sounding instruments, albeit a little bland in the tone department.

The little 190 is a clever design in that the ply back gets around the back problems new flatback basses often have during their first winters. If you have any specific questions about that model, I'd be happy to try to answer them.
 
#8
gerry grable said:
I guess bass sizes can be confusing. I had been playing my restored German "3/4" for years, but had no idea that it was a 7/8 until I took it Shank Strings for repairs. I can't remember any fingering problems. Luckily it has an Eb neck.
Click to expand...

I guess I would say "completely arbitrary" instead of "confusing" when describing fractional sizes. Since there aren't really any "standard" models for double basses, there isn't really a standard benchmark for what constitutes a particular size. There are plenty of basses that are considered 3/4 size that some people would describe as small, and others that seem quite large. Side by side, you would be hard pressed to call them the same size but they are both described as 3/4. The only time that I have seen any sense of consistency in fractional sizing is between different models offered by the same maker. If Shen offers 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, and 4/4 basses, I've got a pretty good idea which one is bigger than the other. If I'm comparing a Shen 3/4 to any other maker's 3/4, I have absolutely no idea which one is going to look bigger, which one is going to feel bigger to the player, and if those two distinctions correspond with one another.

Sometimes people suggest that string length plays a role, but that seems arbitrary as well. 40-42" could be described as 3/4, but the SuperKarr mentioned above has a 41.75" string length, and I would definitely consider it a 4/4 instead of a 3/4. Joel Quarrington's Maggini has a string length around 39" and very slender ribs, but I would also not consider it a 5/8 instrument.

With instruments that are not by modern makers offering a range of sizes, the distinction tends to be mostly based on the shop/owner's perception of the instrument. If it's smaller than most of the other basses in the shop, then it's probably considered 5/8. If it's larger than most of the other basses in the shop, it's likely called 7/8 or 4/4. I have even seen basses described as 9/8 or 5/4 before and while they have definitely been big, I wasn't entirely convinced that was necessary. If a bass doesn't fit into the smaller than most or bigger than most categories, it's typically lumped into 3/4.

I would be curious about Mike Shank's decision to consider your bass 7/8 instead of 3/4. It would also be interesting to see if it went to another shop if they would make the same distinction.

My experience with Upton basses is limited to what was in the shop the day I went for a visit, which by no means qualifies me to make generalizations about their output or sizing decisions. The SuperKarr was definitely large, but that was also very much intended and the purpose of that build. I also had a chance to play the Concord prototype, which again was designed to be their Prescott tribute and as such is a large model. The 3/4 size basses they had in the shop didn't strike me as atypically large, but I also play an a bass with quite wide/round shoulders that I would describe as 3/4 but feels quite large to play. I am sure the Sheriff has much more knowledge about them than I do, and if you are considering commissioning a bass from them, they will likely want to talk about dimensions like string length, widths, and lengths other than just 5/8 vs. 3/4.
 
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#10
MikeCanada said:
I guess I would say "completely arbitrary" instead of "confusing" when describing fractional sizes. Since there aren't really any "standard" models for double basses, there isn't really a standard benchmark for what constitutes a particular size. There are plenty of basses that are considered 3/4 size that some people would describe as small, and others that seem quite large. Side by side, you would be hard pressed to call them the same size but they are both described as 3/4. The only time that I have seen any sense of consistency in fractional sizing is between different models offered by the same maker. If Shen offers 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, and 4/4 basses, I've got a pretty good idea which one is bigger than the other. If I'm comparing a Shen 3/4 to any other maker's 3/4, I have absolutely no idea which one is going to look bigger, which one is going to feel bigger to the player, and if those two distinctions correspond with one another.

Sometimes people suggest that string length plays a role, but that seems arbitrary as well. 40-42" could be described as 3/4, but the SuperKarr mentioned above has a 41.75" string length, and I would definitely consider it a 4/4 instead of a 3/4. Joel Quarrington's Maggini has a string length around 39" and very slender ribs, but I would also not consider it a 5/8 instrument.

With instruments that are not by modern makers offering a range of sizes, the distinction tends to be mostly based on the shop/owner's perception of the instrument. If it's smaller than most of the other basses in the shop, then it's probably considered 5/8. If it's larger than most of the other basses in the shop, it's likely called 7/8 or 4/4. I have even seen basses described as 9/8 or 5/4 before and while they have definitely been big, I wasn't entirely convinced that was necessary. If a bass doesn't fit into the smaller than most or bigger than most categories, it's typically lumped into 3/4.

I would be curious about Mike Shank's decision to consider your bass 7/8 instead of 3/4. It would also be interesting to see if it went to another shop if they would make the same distinction.

My experience with Upton basses is limited to what was in the shop the day I went for a visit, which by no means qualifies me to make generalizations about their output or sizing decisions. The SuperKarr was definitely larthat was also very much intended and the purpose of that build. I also had a chance to play the Concord prototype, which again was designed to be their Prescott tribute and as such is a large model. The 3/4 size basses they had in the shop didn't strike me as atypically large, but I also play an a bass with quite wide/round shoulders that I would describe as
Click to expand...
MikeCanada said:
I guess I would say "completely arbitrary" instead of "confusing" when describing fractional sizes. Since there aren't really any "standard" models for double basses, there isn't really a standard benchmark for what constitutes a particular size. There are plenty of basses that are considered 3/4 size that some people would describe as small, and others that seem quite large. Side by side, you would be hard pressed to call them the same size but they are both described as 3/4. The only time that I have seen any sense of consistency in fractional sizing is between different models offered by the same maker. If Shen offers 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, and 4/4 basses, I've got a pretty good idea which one is bigger than the other. If I'm comparing a Shen 3/4 to any other maker's 3/4, I have absolutely no idea which one is going to look bigger, which one is going to feel bigger to the player, and if those two distinctions correspond with one another.

Sometimes people suggest that string length plays a role, but that seems arbitrary as well. 40-42" could be described as 3/4, but the SuperKarr mentioned above has a 41.75" string length, and I would definitely consider it a 4/4 instead of a 3/4. Joel Quarrington's Maggini has a string length around 39" and very slender ribs, but I would also not consider it a 5/8 instrument.

With instruments that are not by modern makers offering a range of sizes, the distinction tends to be mostly based on the shop/owner's perception of the instrument. If it's smaller than most of the other basses in the shop, then it's probably considered 5/8. If it's larger than most of the other basses in the shop, it's likely called 7/8 or 4/4. I have even seen basses described as 9/8 or 5/4 before and while they have definitely been big, I wasn't entirely convinced that was necessary. If a bass doesn't fit into the smaller than most or bigger than most categories, it's typically lumped into 3/4.

I would be curious about Mike Shank's decision to consider your bass 7/8 instead of 3/4. It would also be interesting to see if it went to another shop if they would make the same distinction.

My experience with Upton basses is limited to what was in the shop the day I went for a visit, which by no means qualifies me to make generalizations about their output or sizing decisions. The SuperKarr was definitely large, but that was also very much intended and the purpose of that build. I also had a chance to play the Concord prototype, which again was designed to be their Prescott tribute and as such is a large model. The 3/4 size basses they had in the shop didn't strike me as atypically large, but I also play an a bass with quite wide/round shoulders that I would describe as 3/4 but feels quite large to play. I am sure the Sheriff has much more knowledge about them than I do, and if you are considering commissioning a bass from them, they will likely want to talk about dimensions like string length, widths, and lengths other than just 5/8 vs. 3/4.
Click to expand...




Could it be the string length in my case? My strings are 42 5/8 inches! I just measured them to be sure with the marked steel tape that Mike Shank gave me specifically for that purpose.
Thanks, Gerry
 
#11
String length is a factor for some basses and the people deciding what size it is, and not so much for others. I am guessing at 42 5/8 that may have been part of the reason Mike decided it should be considered a 7/8, but it could also be a combination of a lot of other variables. I would be curious to see what other luthiers/shops would size it as not because I doubt Mike's judgement or anyone else in the business, but more as a thought experiment to see how (in)consistent the industry is.
 
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#13
Mike Shank is the man around here. I have visited him several times and he has done work on my bass several times. In fact, the last time I was in there were quite a few pro players that had basses there for setup and repair (e.g., Philly Orchestra). I am 5' 6", though I play a 3/4 (as some would call it). This model is rather slender in the lower bout (barely larger than the upper bout), but the width across the middle (by the f holes) is rather wide and its back long - I think its upwards of 45". As I've matured with the instrument, I think I'd go for one with a shorter overall length, but from what I have read of measurements, most 3/4 basses are shorter than that - some by several inches. If I recall correctly, Mike also said that my bass falls somewhere between 3/4 and 7/8 (It's a Carcassi model if you want to look it up, an interesting body pattern for sure). However, it has never been a problem for me. In fact, I find it rather easy to play because it has sharply sloped shoulders. Don't let size terms like 3/4 stop you from finding a bass that fits your body. That being said, don't expect me to play solo lit on a Panormo!
 
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#14
I apologize Joel. The "around 39 inches" number is one of the legends told by people who have seen the instrument, and probably not the only thing we don't remember as we should. I have not had the pleasure of playing it and wouldn't do it justice, but it is interesting to know it is 41.5".
 

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