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5-String Clarity Issues

#21
First of all........how big is this church that 2 21" subs plus 2 15" subs are needed????

Secondly.....why is the soundman dialing in so much kick?? It's obvious he/she has no experience other than their own listening habits. You don't mix for yourself! Everyone has to be happy! Soundmen should not dictate unless they are worldclass and have the experience to match!

I went to a funkfest sometime ago and the sound was horrible! All I heard was kickdrum! All frikkin' night long! Talk to your soundperson......now!
 
#22
Ric5 said:
Dial in you midrange frequencies. That will give you overtones on the B and growl.

Also maybe the sound man is boosting too much 20, 30 and 40hz.
Click to expand...


Yeah, midrange content is crucial to hearing a B string - as an example, I had a beautiful EBMM BFR SR5 HH that I really liked, but the alnico pups on it tended to disappear in a band mix - I traded it for a Sterling 5HS with ceramics that is more mid present, and have none of those problems now... Also, if I EQ my 5ers so that I have a nice fat E string like on my 4s, my B string is overly bassy, and hard to discern...


- georgestrings
 
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#23
Yeah even on the higher end 5'ers I've had (and do have), Modulus, MTD USA, Wal, Spector, Lakland, Dingwall etc., worrying necessarily about "clarity" hasn't been a big deal to me for the FOH sound.
We tune to drop C and my B is down a whole step to A (since we go up to D std. also) but I don't use it all that often, I just happen to be a 5 string player. I really only go and drop those B string "bombs" when I want to kick up the level of impact.
However, having played in church for many many years, with very nice rigs, it was always a struggle getting a good FOH sound/tone. That's why I was thrilled when they went to IEM+Aviom systems, so I could at least enjoy what my personal mix was, and then left it up to the volunteers on Sunday AM's to make me audible.

Someone also mentioned the compressor bit- if you're compressing your signal before hitting a compressor at the board, that isn't gonna help either.
 
#26
I also think it's likely the sound guy's fault. Get him!!!!

But seriously, you also say there's a stage you're playing on? Does that resonate?

I would try having them turn you off in the mains, and first just listen to the amp (if you use one, i don't think I saw it mentioned).

Then have them feed you through the PA, but like everyone else said, with tailored EQ to not be so huge in the subs... or if they use a send for the subs so everything doesn't go into them, pull that back.
 
#27
I hate it when a soundguy is running an AUX out to the sub and just sends the kick and bass to it. It has happened several times, No crossover involved, no mains just run the bass and kick thru an AUX into powered sub. DUH ***? I always try and think of a way to start the convo : "you know my bass and the kick create frequencies above 125hz right?" "Don't you think you should run the whole program thru the powered sub and utilize it's built in X-over so you can pass everything above 125hz to the mains?"

I always feel like I'm gonna come off like a know-it-all hotshot, so I never say anything, I just shake my head and say to myself "what an idiot"

end rant
 
#28
mowburger said:
I hate it when a soundguy is running an AUX out to the sub and just sends the kick and bass to it. It has happened several times, No crossover involved, no mains just run the bass and kick thru an AUX into powered sub. DUH ***? I always try and think of a way to start the convo : "you know my bass and the kick create frequencies above 125hz right?" "Don't you think you should run the whole program thru the powered sub and utilize it's built in X-over so you can pass everything above 125hz to the mains?"

I always feel like I'm gonna come off like a know-it-all hotshot, so I never say anything, I just shake my head and say to myself "what an idiot"

end rant
Click to expand...

AUX-fed subs is fine as long as you also have a crossover, and you put the bass and kick not only in the sub but also the mains. Of course, that just seems like a waste of an AUX to me.

I don't know why anyone would want the bass and kick to only go to the sub. Would sound terrible.

OP: This sounds more like a fault with the sound guys not knowing how to mix bass properly than you giving them a bad signal. They could probably benefit from having a professional sound guy come in.
 
#29
I find that the low B string needs a compressor more often then not. I tend to do light compression and a fast limiter to help with the B muddying up the sound too much. But I'm also trying to use 2 hand tapping a lot so the low B is mixed with upper register notes that only ring out together with a compressor evening things out. But not squashed just enough to let the low B know who's boss.
 
#30
Violen said:
Explore the rest of your bass! I use my B when its necessary and when it works, not all the time.
Click to expand...

+1. I have a great low b, but frankly, I don't use it that much in church. Using it all the time just messes up about every song there is. Once in a while it's really sweet but that's about it.

Listen to the recordings of the songs you're playing. You'll find out that the low b is effective when not used all the time.
 
#31
I would point the sound folks to a primer on frequency slotting. You probably need to back some low's out of your tone and work to find a tone that blends with the kick rather than compete with the kick. That and if you find yourself on the low b all the time you really need to ask why ? Best use of a low B is 'infrequently' once in a while as a grace note, a bit of texture, an embellishment (IMO naturally). If you're down there all the time you lose the actual power of the B - which is the contrast with the typical range of the bass... 7 string Cookie Monster vocal death metal and tasteless rap generes to be excluded from the above of course

Klokker may have put it more gracefully then I :)
 
#32
mowburger said:
I hate it when a soundguy is running an AUX out to the sub and just sends the kick and bass to it. It has happened several times, No crossover involved, no mains just run the bass and kick thru an AUX into powered sub. DUH ***? I always try and think of a way to start the convo : "you know my bass and the kick create frequencies above 125hz right?" "Don't you think you should run the whole program thru the powered sub and utilize it's built in X-over so you can pass everything above 125hz to the mains?"

I always feel like I'm gonna come off like a know-it-all hotshot, so I never say anything, I just shake my head and say to myself "what an idiot"

end rant
Click to expand...

Aux-fed subs is the only way to run them that doesn't suck.
However, they should always be run from a post-fader aux.
Also, if there's a x-over built into the sub, it can be used... as long as there's an EQ in front of it to balance out the freqs. And that also assumes the mains are only getting the stuff the sub isn't covering.
 
#33
DuraMorte said:
Aux-fed subs is the only way to run them that doesn't suck.
However, they should always be run from a post-fader aux.
Also, if there's a x-over built into the sub, it can be used... as long as there's an EQ in front of it to balance out the freqs. And that also assumes the mains are only getting the stuff the sub isn't covering.
Click to expand...


In general, I agree. Using a post-fader aux to send to the the subs is a very quick, simple, elegant and easy way to control what instruments are feeding the superlows in your mix, without tying up EQ that could be used for further sculpting.

But yes, a cross-over / EQ to rid of overlapping freq between subs and mains is still necessary. And if you run in stereo, that might mean an additional x-over / EQ in your system rather than just one connected to the L/R mains output (since now you need one on the aux, too), but it sure makes for quick and easy, non-mud-cluttered mixes.
 

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