5 String “Super P” with Nordstrand Bigrigs

[honza992]

OK, the dowel gluing went pretty well. However, next time I'll make my own dowels. These were ones I bought from ebay and frankly the quality was shocking – they weren't a smooth tube of ebony but lumpy and inconsistent. I didn't have a 7mm plug cutter though and I was impatient etc etc. So looking from above it isn't a perfect black circle. Less haste Honza, less haste....

Anyway, I trimmed the excess with my fret saw than sanded the dowels till they were flush. I then used a countersink bit to chamfer the sides then drilled a a 4mm hole down through the middle part way through the body. I have to say I'm pretty pleased with the result. The photo would suggest otherwise (I think because of perspective) but everything is pretty well centred. I'm waiting for the string ferrules to arrive, so the holes on the back will wait for another day.

I spent the rest of the day building this:

It's a very poor copy of one of Bruce Johnson's routing jigs, copied from here (Router Planing Fixtures). Originally I was going to use it for preparing body blank joins but it suddenly occurred to me that might also be able to use it for the neck taper. Any, it works brilliantly. I tried it out on a sacrificial neck (don't ask....) and it was smooth and accurate. I can't wait to use it on the neck for real. And I'm glad I didn't use it immediately on a real neck. You can see near the heel where the router fell of the side and carved a nice hole in the back. I need to remember to use my wider router base ...

That's it for now. Thanks for looking.

 

[rwkeating]

Can't see the pictures in the post just above this one.

 

[I-Am-The-Slime]

/\ Same

Looking great! Thanks for the detailed description

 

[honza992]

Oops, sorry about the links

Fixed.

 

[Jon Clegg]

Looking good

 

[honza992]

OK, today was fretting. This is what I use:

A Stewmac Jaws. Like most Stewmac stuff it was phenomenally expensive and does at best an ok job and if I had my time again, would I buy it? No. It takes quite a lot of getting used to, and in fact the first few necks I made I hammered in because I just couldn't get it to work reliably. With a bit more practise it does now work well, you can feel the fret being pushed in, so it does allow quite a lot of control. Like a lot of other Stewmac stuff it gives the impression of being a first version, slightly half-arsed and not really properly thought out. It works ok, bits of it are poor quality and the design makes it more limited than it should be. With a bit more effort it could be a great tool.

Anyway, fretting was ….hard! I'd done a couple of test frets on some scrap which seemed to go in pretty easily, but this took some effort. I even got the calipers out to make sure that the fretwire I was using in fact had a 0.5mm tang (my slots are 0.6mm). I guess the ebano has very little give. It wasn't helped by the fact that the cauls on the Jaws are too small for 5 string so once they were all in I had to go back and re-press all of them. One trick I've learned the hard way to do is always have heavy masking tape either side of the slot just in case Jaws slips.

The other trick I learned from Jon Shuker (take a look here, the top Uberhorn is breathtaking Invalid Link Removed). And that is to use a crisp packet (chips yonder side of the Atlantic) to check that the fret is seated properly. I used a cut out square from a Cheese & Onion packet, known for its' vintage roundness, but if you're building a single cut apparently Salt & Vinegar works better. My calipers say that a crisp packet is 0.06mm thick and if you can slide it under the fret then Jaws Returns....

Once fretting finished I trimmed the frets, then used a file to first square them off, then add a chamfer going 1mm into the wood – this helps with rounding the edges of the fretboard a little bit later.

Once finished I was annoyed to find this:

I've obviously dropped something on the fretboard. I'm not quite sure what or when but it was clearly sharply angled so I fear steam isn't going to be enough to get it out. Sanding dust and glue I guess....unless anyone else has got a good idea?

Finally today I marked on the facets ready for carving tomorrow. The idea of carving a neck completely freehand makes me nervous, so I find the facet technique works really well. Also it means I can vary the profile if I want in a predictable way, simply by changing the layout of the facets. Tomorrow the fun starts......

That's all folks.

Thanks for looking,
Honza.

 

[honza992]

Today I started the neck carve.

As I mentioned above I use the facet technique. Basically you carve a number of flat facets onto the neck and in doing so it roughs out the approximate shape and then you finish up with some sanding to the final proportions. This is what I do, which means you end up with a fairly normal C shape neck:

(Clearly the fact that this is a photo of a handwritten notebook shows my level of graphics ability)

Here's the first facet carved into the neck. Generally I start with a Shinto rasp to cut away the bulk, then move to a dragon file then finish with a spokeshave. The more consistent and flatter you can get the facets the better – it cuts down massively on the amount of levelling you need to do at the end.

Here it is after the first facet is done and shows the next facet – marked 'A' in the photo.

One useful technique is that as I carve I will run a pencil lead (to a mechanical pencil) along the edge of the facet I am currently working onto show my progress. Without this it can be quite hard to see exactly how much you have already carved off, and how much more you need to do.

Once the facets are finished I take off the edges with a spokeshave then start sanding. This sanding must be done across the neck, not lengthways. The idea being that you are getting rid of the ridges left by the faceting. I start with a sanding block then move to sandpaper 'shoe shine' style.

The most difficult part is the transition into the volute under the nut. Which is why I left it till tomorrow!

 

[honza992]

Ok, ok, I chickened out of doing the volute. So it was a day of routing the body.

First up, control cavity. At this stage I only rout the inner cavity. I've learned the hard way only to rout the outer shallow cavity (where the cover sits) once I have done all but the final body sanding. You want that shallow cavity to be exactly the depth of the cover, so if you haven't finished sanding you'll need to go back and adjust the depth once sanding is finished.

The other thing I have learned is to put an 'Up' and 'Down' on all my templates – I once finished routing the control cavity only to find I had done it upside down.

Cavity finished, showing the rout I did prior to gluing on the top that will be used for the earth wire going to the bridge. I hope somewhere I've written down the coordinates of where to drill the hole through the top to reach the channel....

Next was an 'f' hole, 2 pickup cavities and that was it. The body so far:

 

[honza992]

I forgot to add that the body weighs in at 1.8kg, so my back of the envelope calculation is that final weight will be 3.6kg (7lb 14oz). I found with a couple of my other builds that absolute weight is less important than how well it balances - a 4kg bass with a neck that naturally sits at 30 degrees above the horizontal is a lot more comfortable than a 3kg where the neck naturally rests horizontally. My last 4 string was less that 3kg and even with a 33" scale and Ultralites balance was a (slight) issue.

 

[honza992]

The only other update is the bridge ground. My notebook said to drill 42mm in and 44mm down from the strap button location (ie on the edge at the body join) and as I did there was a very satisfying clunk as the drill bit fell into the rout I did before gluing on the redwood top.

(The tape is there to make sure I wasn't drilling outside of the bridge location)

 

[Luke the Fluke]

Following this - mainly as a fellow uk based bassist I'm probably going to be asking you questions about your finishing when you get to that! I bought a lovely ash body blank off mr shuker a month or so back which I'm mating to a musicman neck I picked up off basschat

 

[honza992]

Hi Luke, thanks for the message.

Thoughts of finishing fill my days and haunt my nights.....:***:

I've never been satisfied with anything I've tried - Tru Oil, Wipe on Poly, Shellac (down entirely to my own incompetence, I'm most certainly not blaming my tools)...... I've got spray equipment but can't spray nitro because of extraction, creating exploding fireballs etc etc, so this time I shall be spraying water based polyurethane - General Finishes High Performance to be exact. I've used a couple of times before and it was....ok....this time though I've had the benefit of reading the water based thread right here (Using water based products for instrument finishing, Target Coatings 9000 6000 and Varathane WB). In particular Bruce mentioned the importance of turning down the air pressure. On the test pieces I've done this really seems to have helped.

I was also thinking doing a black grain fill on the ash. Either West Systems Epoxy with black dye added, or just spraying the first coat of the High Performance with black dye. I've done an initial test with both, neither particularly successful. Neither seemed drop down into the pores particularly well. I may try thinning the HP a bit and seeing whether that helps.

Or I may just dunk the whole thing in a vat of swarfega

 

[honza992]

And a very quick update about the neck which is now almost entirely carved. I didn't really manage to get any useful photos of the process. They all ended up being just a photo of my hand melodramatically holding a file in the vicinity of a neck. Pointless. So here's a photo of the almost finished headstock transition. It's still a bit lumpy, but nearly there.

Tomorrow's update is.....nuts....

 

[Luke the Fluke]

Hi Luke, thanks for the message.

Thoughts of finishing fill my days and haunt my nights.....:***:

I've never been satisfied with anything I've tried - Tru Oil, Wipe on Poly, Shellac (down entirely to my own incompetence, I'm most certainly not blaming my tools)...... I've got spray equipment but can't spray nitro because of extraction, creating exploding fireballs etc etc, so this time I shall be spraying water based polyurethane - General Finishes High Performance to be exact. I've used a couple of times before and it was....ok....this time though I've had the benefit of reading the water based thread right here (Using water based products for instrument finishing, Target Coatings 9000 6000 and Varathane WB). In particular Bruce mentioned the importance of turning down the air pressure. On the test pieces I've done this really seems to have helped.

I was also thinking doing a black grain fill on the ash. Either West Systems Epoxy with black dye added, or just spraying the first coat of the High Performance with black dye. I've done an initial test with both, neither particularly successful. Neither seemed drop down into the pores particularly well. I may try thinning the HP a bit and seeing whether that helps.

Or I may just dunk the whole thing in a vat of swarfega

I love the build threads on here - but the products used on the uk equivalent forums are really really different!

 

[honza992]

I start by thickness the nut blank on a series of sandpaper grits stuck to a flat surface, then put it in the slot and get it the right width. Although I haven't done final sanding on the neck yet, it is fairly close, so I use some tape to protect it. When I'm done to the level of the tape, I take it off and only use 220 grit so I'm not taking anything off the neck.

The nut has been rough cut and the slots have been started. The final depths will be done once the strings are on. One useful I have come across is a spreadsheet here (String Spacing Calculator) which helps with calculating string spacings. The one thing it doesn't do though is a final calculation giving distances from one edge of the nut so you can draw centre lines to guide cutting. So I've added that functionality in. I'm not sure what the net etiquette is of posting someone else's file, so if anyone wants a copy just PM me and I can email it to you. Here's the nut with the slots started:

And test installed. It needs a bit more shaping and sanding, but I'm happy with it.

I've kept this pretty concise (at least by my standards) but if anyone wants a more detailed description, let me know.

 

[honza992]

Looong delay due to holiday, children, life…….



OK, now the incredibly frustrating process that is finishing. My plan was an epoxy grain fill on the body followed by General Finishes High Performance clearcoat for both body and neck. Neither have gone that well.

I;ve never done an epoxy grain fill before. I’ve using West Systems. The first coat I put on far too much, then chased it around with a squeegee, while it dripped down the sides, onto the floor, etc etc. I left it for a day then sanded it back by hand using 180/220. The second coat I tried applying using a foam roller which actually seemed to work pretty well. It used a lot of epoxy (since most of it was sucked up by the foam) but it seemed to get into the pores pretty well, and there weren’t any drips.

Here’s a photo when it was dry this morning…..

I thought I’d try a random orbit sander and it was definitely better on the flat surfaces that doing it by hand. However, it’s a PITA getting the dried epoxy off the sides. More annoying I’m finding it really hard to get rid of the blotches from where the epoxy has soaked in more than in other places.

Here for example on the side...

I think now what I should have done was put on a couple of coats of sanding sealer first. I’ve even got a bottle of Zinsser SealCoat which might have been perfect. The epoxy has soaked down right into the wood in places and sanding back to bare wood is taking a long time. I’ll have another go tomorrow and see whether I can make the colour a bit more consistent. I’m not sure whether spraying clearcoat will help the situation or not.

Like tennis, so much of guitar making seems to be as much about avoiding unforced errors as anything else!

 

[honza992]

To take my mind off the nightmare that is finishing, I made some custom knobs. I’ve experimented quite a bit with different methods, and this is the best I’ve come up. It’s not for everyone if for no other reason than the ¾” plug cutter I use is very expensive, but without a lathe it’s the best method I’ve come up with, and it does a pretty good job.

On this bass I’m making the knobs two-tone, ash barrel with an ebony cap. I glued a piece of scrap ash and ebony together. Once dry I then thicknessed this to the final thickness, I think mine were 18mm high. It’s important to do it now, you won’t get another chance!


Here’s what I use. A ¾” plug cutter, a 15mm forstner and a 6mm HSS drill bit.

The difficult thing with knobs is getting the hole exactly in the middle of the knob. If you don’t, the knob will wobble as you turn it.

Step 1: Do a dry run. The critical thing is that you need to be able to get all 3 bits (the plug cutter, forstner and HSS) in and out of the drill press without changing the height or moving the piece of wood. Once drill and wood are clamped down, leave them there. As soon as you move anything the next hole you drill will be mis-aligned.

Step 2: Using double sided tape, stick the blank down onto a sacrificial piece of MDF. Clamp this down to your drill table.

Step 3: Drill 6 mm hole. I normally drill leaving 2mm. (I think most pots have a 6mm knurled split shaft, though I've also come across 1/4 inch. Check before you drill and make sure you use the right sized drill bit).

Step 4: Take out the drill bit WITHOUT moving the drill or the blank. Put in the 15mm forster and drill approx 5mm. This gives the indentation for the hex nut that secures the pot in place.

Step 5: Take out the drill bit and put in the plug cutter. Again, make sure nothing moves. If you have a variable speed drill, turn the speed right down (I think I do it at about 650 RPM). Cut all the way through with the plug cutter.

Hopefully, you’re left with this, with all the holes nicely aligned….

I then drill a 2mm hole in the side for a 2.5mm grub screw and a 2mm hole in the top for a dot (I use the same material as my side dots).

I then put the knobs onto a 6mm piece of steel bar, put that into my drill press and with the speed down low use it to sand the body of the knob and also to soften the top edge.

Final result…..(actually they need a bit more sanding, but nearly there).

 

[rwkeating]

I did almost the same thing, but I didn't use a forstner bit. One time I left the bottom flat and it just rested on the nut that holds the pot in. Another time I used a counter sync bit (after all the other drilling was done.) I just needed to take a little off to have the knob set lower. I think I even used a hand drill so centering wasn't a problem.

 

[honza992]

I did almost the same thing, but I didn't use a forstner bit. One time I left the bottom flat and it just rested on the nut that holds the pot in. Another time I used a counter sync bit (after all the other drilling was done.) I just needed to take a little off to have the knob set lower. I think I even used a hand drill so centering wasn't a problem.

They came out great! I love the bevel you've put on the top. If you don't mind I may steal that idea for a later build....

 

[rwkeating]

I like the bevel for feeling where the knob is positioned.