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51 P-Bass Split Coil vs. Split coil P-Bass thoughts?

G

goat1234

Mar 17, 2004
262
27
38
Virgnia
#1
Can anyone speak to the tone difference between the 51 P bass split coil and the more ubiquitous split P-bass pickup?

I would like to replace the humbucker in my Mikey Way mustang for something with a more solid P bass tone, but do not want to put in a P pickup (or a mustang pickup).
 
#2
The original Pbass didn't have a split coil pickup. It was a single coil pickup with one polepiece per string.

The sound is much more direct with a bigger attack and more highs and lows than the split coil. On the other hand it lacks the thick, low mid presence of the split coil P and like all single coils it is susceptible to 60 cycle hum.

Here are some songs with single coil P bass tones:



Lindy Fralin DOES make a great split coil version of the original Pbass pickup so you get most of that tone but in a humcancelling setup. Worth looking into.
 
#3
Just some info: I've always been told that Leo switched to the split-coil, because the single coil gave too much low bass that most of the amps and speakers at the time couldn't handle it really well. That's why he started using the split coil: A little less serious lows and high sparkle (everyone was playing flat fingerstyle so that didn't really matter at the time), and more low-mids. Better for your speakers (and for you in the mix as well).
 
#4
Salamenster said:
Just some info: I've always been told that Leo switched to the split-coil, because the single coil gave too much low bass that most of the amps and speakers at the time couldn't handle it really well. That's why he started using the split coil: A little less serious lows and high sparkle (everyone was playing flat fingerstyle so that didn't really matter at the time), and more low-mids. Better for your speakers (and for you in the mix as well).
Click to expand...

I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. I would imagine that his motivation was primarily to combat hum.
 
#5
mcnach said:
I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. I would imagine that his motivation was primarily to combat hum.
Click to expand...

Wait stop, you're both right. The original single coil P bass WAS blowing speakers (no issues with bass amps, it was the cabs that weren't up to snuff) and was redesigned allegedly for that reason but the split coil design also allowed Leo to outfit the bass with a humbucker without violating Gibson's patent.

At least that's my understanding.
 
#6
goat1234 said:
Can anyone speak to the tone difference between the 51 P bass split coil and the more ubiquitous split P-bass pickup?

I would like to replace the humbucker in my Mikey Way mustang for something with a more solid P bass tone, but do not want to put in a P pickup (or a mustang pickup).
Click to expand...

The important difference isn't the pickup, it is the pickup position.
 
#7
Jared Lash said:
Wait stop, you're both right. The original single coil P bass WAS blowing speakers (no issues with bass amps, it was the cabs that weren't up to snuff) and was redesigned allegedly for that reason but the split coil design also allowed Leo to outfit the bass with a humbucker without violating Gibson's patent.

At least that's my understanding.
Click to expand...

Really?

I can't say that I've noticed significantly reduced bass on the split coils (I have both types of P bass)...
If I wanted that I would probably move the pickup towards the bridge rather than redesign the thing... But I really don't know what the truth is. I'm just surprised because to me both sound different, but not that different in the lows department... :confused:
 
#8
mcnach said:
Really?

I can't say that I've noticed significantly reduced bass on the split coils (I have both types of P bass)...
If I wanted that I would probably move the pickup towards the bridge rather than redesign the thing... But I really don't know what the truth is. I'm just surprised because to me both sound different, but not that different in the lows department... :confused:
Click to expand...

The lows in question are almost subsonic. And with a P most of the "lows" you hear are actually low mids. So it isn't that much notivable, but has effect nonetheless.
 
#10
mcnach said:
Really?

I can't say that I've noticed significantly reduced bass on the split coils (I have both types of P bass)...
If I wanted that I would probably move the pickup towards the bridge rather than redesign the thing... But I really don't know what the truth is. I'm just surprised because to me both sound different, but not that different in the lows department... :confused:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that it was the actual lows so much as the attack transients. The single coil Ps have a much sharper initial spike. But then again, this is all just what I've read. I can't say with any certainty what the real deal was.
 
#13
" but the split coil design also allowed Leo to outfit the bass with a humbucker without violating Gibson's patent."


Gibson was granted their patent July 28th, 1959-
so that wasn't it for July 1957 split P-Bass design.
 
#14
Jared Lash said:
I'm not sure that it was the actual lows so much as the attack transients. The single coil Ps have a much sharper initial spike. But then again, this is all just what I've read. I can't say with any certainty what the real deal was.
Click to expand...

A lot of that is because of the magnet directly under the string. The split-P pickup has the magnets arranged like J pickups, which removes harshness from the attack.

I tried a bunch of split-P pickups and was surprised how bright they were. The brightness can be EQ'd out, but it's there.
 
#15
Vintage1 said:
" but the split coil design also allowed Leo to outfit the bass with a humbucker without violating Gibson's patent."





Gibson was granted their patent July 28th, 1959-

so that wasn't it for July 1957 split P-Bass design.
Click to expand...


But they applied for that patent in 1955, after which they installed thousands of them in their guitars, with a "Patent Applied For" sticker on the underside. Thus was born the legend known as the "PAF humbucker".
 
#16
"But they applied for that patent in 1955, after which they installed thousands of them in their guitars, with a "Patent Applied For" sticker on the underside. Thus was born the legend known as the "PAF humbucker".

Fender couldn't violate a patent that had not been granted yet.

Gretch had a humbucking patent granted to them
before Gibson did- around 1954 or 1955.

And Vega had humbucking pickups in lapsteels in the late
1930's too- just for the sake of pointing it out.
 

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