'51 Squire P-Bass Reissue - Terrible Tone, Why?

[jbun]

I've searched & scanned here but no joy yet, hence the post; apologies if this is already covered somewhere.

This bass has practically no bass - something's wrong with the pickup, wiring, somewhere in there. More specifically, when the tone pot is rolled off completely,

• The volume decreases
• Still getting a lot of treble coming through

When I roll the tone pot forward just a hair, the treble boosts as though I've rolled it forward nearly completely. From there it just gets super clanky and poopy.

I'd taken it to a shop for help and they added a capacitor that was supposed to do something about the treble but I think it made things worse.

Additionally there's a crapton of hum, which I know comes with the single-coil territory but I'm not fussed about "single-coil tone" or whatever. Honestly, I'd like this thing to sound like a p-bass, meaning:

• No hum
• No volume drop when I adjust tone
• A steady, smooth change in tone across the full sweep of the tone pot

I assume that this isn't too much to ask. I also assume that I'm not gonna get the same sound out of this style of pickup as I would out of a split p-bass pickup but I could get similar enough results.

I'm open to buying a new pickup and tone pot, if necessary.

Recommendations? Thanks in advance.

 

[LoveThatBass]

I put a Nordstrand 50’s P (with Alnico 3 magnets) direct from Nordstrand as they make them to order at no extra cost for my Sire D5 (50’s P Bass). They are excellent sounding pickups. I would suggest you listen to the demo on their site first.
About your Tone control acting like a volume control I would verify the wiring is correct.

51P4S Hum-Cancelling

The 51P4S is a split coil version of an original P style pickup. It delivers the vintage tone, but has a quieter operation with hum-canceling split coil.

nordstrandaudio.com

There are other pickups lie Fralin and Seymour Duncan but some have had to trim a little off of the lower phenolic to make it fit. I had to do this on a Fender 51P Reissue with Seymour Duncan QP a few years back. The Nordstrand fit with no issues.
There are prewired volume and tone available if you do not have good soldering skills. You can burn a pot up by applying too much heat. Here is a good one that no solder is needed. Gunstreet P Bass Wiring Harness (one with terminal strip)

 

[ctmullins]

Did you buy it new or used? If used, has someone else been messing with the factory wiring?

Also, what strings are you using?

 

[2saddleslab]

If the instrument is a keeper you can buy a wiring harness w/ the proper pot & caps as well as a new pickup [Seymour Duncan Stinger Stack is my choice] w/ hum cancelling. That way, at least electronically, you'll be starting from scratch, which should eliminate any issues.

 

[LoveThatBass]

Did you buy it new or used? If used, has someone else been messing with the factory wiring?

Also, what strings are you using?

Sorry, should have realized you were talking about the original poster’s bass. Somehow I thought it was him asking the above that you posted

 

[Citizen Nara]

I got the same thing and the pots are stock and perfectly fine, so looks like someone played with yours. On the other hand, the single coil hum is expected, especially if you crank the gain knob, so I would advise either trading it for a regular P bass or changing the pickup for something more noiseless.

 

[J Wilson]

I wouldn't start buying pickups until I had someone qualified check the wiring. The Squier 51P's are generally well-regarded (especially if you want the 51-style body with a tummy cut and arm rolloff), and as simple a wiring as there is.

I'd get it straightened out and operating properly, then decide. What you have is not typical of these axes, and you've never said if it was like this brand new (in which case the dealer needs to make it right on their nickel) or if this is second-hand, and someone was in their messing around (where the reseller needs to do the right thing, or you're going to have to pay for it yourself). Big difference.

 

[JTNuney]

Hmmm… I played a few CV 50s Ps before settling on one (a CIC from 2010), and none exhibited any symptoms like you’re describing (not even the hum I was expecting from a single coil). Mine has plenty of bass, no weird pot behavior, just a lot of P goodness.

As others have said, something ain’t right under the hood - I’d get that figured out before throwing money at new pickups.

 

[andare]

Don't spend money. Open the controls and post pictures, check against traditional wiring for the 51 P bass.

0.1uF is quite aggressive and may give apparent loss of volume when the tone is rolled off. 0.047uF is more standard these days. I expect a Squier to use 0.047uF.
The 15k resistor lowers the pickup's output, not the treble, and only with the tone rolled down (edit!). I suppose it's because the speakers of the day had trouble with the spiky attack of the single coil pickup with pole pieces right under the strings (so I've heard). I don't think you need that part nowadays.

If your bass has no low end and sounds trebly, there might be a capacitor in series with the hot wire, which acts as a filter and only lets mids and high through.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

A single coil P-bass will never sound like a split coil P-bass, even if you install a single coil sized split coil. The pickup is in a different position, which will make a huge difference to the tone. If you want the tone of a split coil P-bass you must get a split coil P-bass.

However, a single coil P-bass shouldn't work the way you are describing. Your bass is clearly faulty. Without more information it sounds more like a wiring issue than a faulty pickup, maybe something as simple as a cold solder joint somewhere. But I won't rule out anything without being able to actually test the bass.

I'm assuming you didn't purchase the bass new, because if you did it wouldn't make sense to take it to a shop and let them mess with the wiring like that. I don't understand why they would add a capacitor. I don't see how that should fix the problems you are describing. It sounds to me like they didn't have a clue what they were doing.

If you purchased the bass used, who knows what someone might have done with the wiring.

The best thing to do at this point is probably to rip out all the wiring and re-wire it correctly from scratch with new, good quality components. A250k (audio/logarithmic) pots. Tone cap somewhere between .047 - .100 uF. Personally I would use .047 uF because single coil P-basses can get boomy/muddy very fast when you roll off the tone with a .100 uF cap. If it still doesn't work properly, the pickup must be faulty, but I have a feeling this isn't the case here.

Or if the wiring looks correct, you could try to go over all the solder joints. That should take less than a minute and could potentially save you some money.

The stock pickup in these basses is fine btw (assuming it isn't faulty). "Upgrading" to a more expensive pickup is hardly worth it IMO, unless you want a hum-cancelling pickup.

Single coil P-basses do have rather different dynamics than a split coil P-bass and can come across as a bit "clanky" when digging in hard. But this doesn't explain most of the problems you are describing. "Practically no bass" is not what a single coil P-bass should sound like. If anything, they should have MORE bass than split coil P-basses, which are rather mid-focused by comparison.

 

[LoveThatBass]

I agree with the above two posts. If possible take a photo of your wiring and we can help you better.

 

[micguy]

Your symptoms sound like a broken ground - chances are your bass is fixable for almost no money.

 

[ERMAL]

My ‘54 AVRI P does the same thing in regards to the volume dropping with the tone rollled down.
It's because of the wiring. There is a resistor wired in there (totally different than the tone cap) that lowers the volume as the tone is rolled off. This was how they were wired back in the day as a way to prevent the low frequencies from blowing the speakers in the amps of the day, which weren’t dedicated “bass” amps.

Open up the control cavity and there's this little resistor in there on the tone pot, that's the culprit.
It’s a 15k resistor that’s causing this.
There are replacement wiring kits on Reverb, wired like a ‘75 P bass, that doesn’t include the resistor

 

[digmeout]

Maybe just clip the resistor off, and see if that has an effect?

 

[LoveThatBass]

Your symptoms sound like a broken ground - chances are your bass is fixable for almost no money.

A broken ground on a tone pot would cause little change in tone whereas he is complaining the volume seems to drop when turning the tone pot.

 

[Iristone]

Maybe the 51P is just not the bass for you? If it's still within the return period, you could exchange for a 60s or 70s style P bass.
If you like the bass and its core tone, you could try some smaller pots (start with 250K, maybe experiment with 100K). If you prefer the split-coil tone, then a higher-output or "split 51P" will get you closer.

 

[andare]

My ‘54 AVRI P does the same thing in regards to the volume dropping with the tone rollled down.
It's because of the wiring. There is a resistor wired in there (totally different than the tone cap) that lowers the volume as the tone is rolled off. This was how they were wired back in the day as a way to prevent the low frequencies from blowing the speakers in the amps of the day, which weren’t dedicated “bass” amps.

Open up the control cavity and there's this little resistor in there on the tone pot, that's the culprit.
It’s a 15k resistor that’s causing this.
There are replacement wiring kits on Reverb, wired like a ‘75 P bass, that doesn’t include the resistor

Just clip one leg of the resistor and it's out of the circuit. You can even leave it in there attached with one leg. Absolutely no need to replace the entire harness.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Your symptoms sound like a broken ground - chances are your bass is fixable for almost no money.

Yeah, that was my first thought as well. It might have been a really easy fix to begin with. But if someone "at a store" has "added a capacitor", who knows what we're dealing with here now...???

A picture of the wiring might help. At least to rule out SOME possible issues.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

My ‘54 AVRI P does the same thing in regards to the volume dropping with the tone rollled down.
It's because of the wiring. There is a resistor wired in there (totally different than the tone cap) that lowers the volume as the tone is rolled off. This was how they were wired back in the day as a way to prevent the low frequencies from blowing the speakers in the amps of the day, which weren’t dedicated “bass” amps.

Open up the control cavity and there's this little resistor in there on the tone pot, that's the culprit.
It’s a 15k resistor that’s causing this.
There are replacement wiring kits on Reverb, wired like a ‘75 P bass, that doesn’t include the resistor

Are the current CVs wired like that too? I know I've had a couple of them on my bench, but I can't remember ever seeing that, or experiencing that kind of behavior from the tone control. I'm pretty sure I would have remembered something like that on a Squier. But then again, I go through around 10 guitars/basses every week so sometimes the "autopilot" kicks in and I can't even remember what I worked on the day before....

My single coil "50s" CV was definitely not wired like that from the factory, but mine is one of the 1st gen Chinese CVs.

 

[micguy]

A broken ground on a tone pot would cause little change in tone whereas he is complaining the volume seems to drop when turning the tone pot.

Yes, but I didn’t say a broken ground in the tone pot - a broken ground going to the jack will act like what the OP described.