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A Fender made in China?

#23
I recently bought a fender modern player jaguar for $350 that was made in china. Amazingly, the neck, which appears to be quarter sawn, is as good or better than any fender neck I've ever tried. Frets, intonation near perfect, no buzzing with low action. I don't love the jaguar body because of bad ergonomics, but the neck pocket is tighter than any fender I have tried. The pickups and electronics work fine, but could use an upgrade.
 
#24
I'm not entirely convinced Made In America actually means Made In The USA. It's a common mistake that people tend to make that manufacturers take advantage of. If things say Made In America they can be made pretty much anywhere, by anyone, and actually might be. If it says Made In USA it pretty much means it ought to be, but there are ways to get around this.

If you want your minds blown even further, look into ghost builders.

I personally can't see spending more money for a more or less functionally identical product because of where the final setup on a bass was done.
 
#25
DiabolusInMusic said:
Considering they use Cor-Tek, yes, it is pretty well established that no reasonable American (or any first world nation citizen) would want to work in such conditions.
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FMIC set up their own plants, and don't need to subcontract work out, and they don't take contracts from other companies. They don't use Cor-Tek.
 
#27
Deep Cat said:
If things say Made In America they can be made pretty much anywhere, by anyone, and actually might be. If it says Made In USA it pretty much means it ought to be, but there are ways to get around this.
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The Federal Trade Commission brings some pretty stiff lawsuits against companies labeling their products as "Made in the USA" without providing substantial proof that their product is at least 75% made from products and materials of US origin. I'm sure some smaller companies may try to get away with lying, but none of the larger ones, much less the world's biggest manufacturer of guitars, would bother trying to get away with it since the public has shown that it mostly doesn't care.

As for Fender, you're free to visit their American factory and Custom Shop in person and take a tour. American Fenders are made in the US.
 
#28
WalterBush said:
FMIC set up their own plants, and don't need to subcontract work out, and they don't take contracts from other companies. They don't use Cor-Tek.
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Sorry boss but they do. I recommend you look into Squier serial numbers, the VM line for example starts with IC which stands for Indonesia and Cort (Cor-Tek). They also use Samick to manufacture some models.
 
#29
DiabolusInMusic said:
Sorry boss but they do. I recommend you look into Squier serial numbers, the VM line for example starts with IC which stands for Indonesia and Cort (Cor-Tek). They also use Samick to manufacture some models.
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I'll be happy to talk to our Fender rep (I work for my region's Fender dealer) and ask him (again) point-blank about product origin. In retrospect, I had asked previously and specifically about bass, electric guitar, and amp product lines. I suppose it IS possible they started subbing the entry-level acoustics out and he wouldn't have told me.

But I doubt it. They have their own factories in China and Indonesia, and have gone out of their way to set them up rather than let others do their work for them in the past.
 
#30
While there are many products coming from China that are of high quality, it's always a crap shoot. The Chinese business culture/model is such that the quality and safety of a product is the sole responsibility of the buyer, and not the seller. If a product is of poor quality, unsafe, or even dangerous, that's on you, because you made the decision to buy it. By and large, the seller has absolutely no responsibility, once the sale is done.

For that reason, until the Chinese business community makes sweeping changes, I refuse to buy anything Chinese.

Remember, this is the same country that gave us poison pet food, defective and counterfeit medicines, and a number of appliances that have caused injuries and fires. Why would you want to reward that?
 
#31
WalterBush said:
I'll be happy to talk to our Fender rep (I work for my region's Fender dealer) and ask him (again) point-blank about product origin. In retrospect, I had asked previously and specifically about bass, electric guitar, and amp product lines. I suppose it IS possible they started subbing the entry-level acoustics out and he wouldn't have told me.

But I doubt it. They have their own factories in China and Indonesia, and have gone out of their way to set them up rather than let others do their work for them in the past.
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They actually started contracting out work in the 90's (if not earlier). Samick and Cort actually manufacture a large number of the foreign made basses regardless of what the headstock says.

Feel free to confirm it with your rep, but I assure you Fender contracts the work out. They use Cor-Tek specifically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squier#Serial_number_tracing
 
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#32
HeavyRockBasser said:
While there are many products coming from China that are of high quality, it's always a crap shoot. The Chinese business culture/model is such that the quality and safety of a product is the sole responsibility of the buyer, and not the seller. If a product is of poor quality, unsafe, or even dangerous, that's on you, because you made the decision to buy it. By and large, the seller has absolutely no responsibility, once the sale is done.

For that reason, until the Chinese business community makes sweeping changes, I refuse to buy anything Chinese.

Remember, this is the same country that gave us poison pet food, defective and counterfeit medicines, and a number of appliances that have caused injuries and fires. Why would you want to reward that?
Click to expand...

The Chinese will build whatever you want at the quality point you want. For example, most of apple's supposedly high quality electronics are made in China. If you spend enough, you get good quality.

However, most companies will use Chinese manufacturing as a way to reduce costs to the bare minimum, and that's when you get "Chinese crap". If you go "Chinese high quality", you won't get the insane savings which motivated outsourcing the production.
 
#34
jazzonlyjazz said:


I really like the telecaster model on the p-bass, like the one Mike Dirnt of Green Day uses. Looks sick then I saw this.

Figured it was an American or Mexican model, then the guy said made in China.

*MINdBLOWN
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So what. :crying: If you don't like that it was made in China, don't buy it.

Vote with your wallet. Do be sure to let Fender know however since they are responsible for where their instruments are made. That's the only way they're going to know it matters to you.
 
#35
I bought the modern player dimension bass and even though the electronics and hardware arent top notch, the craftsmanshio on it is top notch....as good as any American fender I own. So the electronics and hardware being set in stone....everything that falls under chinese labor is unbelievable,,especially for the price. The neck, action, playability of this bass is so good im gonna upgrade the electronics just because the thing is so kickass. I have been thoroughly impresses with the stuff from fender china.
 
#36
DiabolusInMusic said:
They actually started contracting out work in the 90's (if not earlier). Samick and Cort actually manufacture a large number of the foreign made basses regardless of what the headstock says.

Feel free to confirm it with your rep, but I assure you Fender contracts the work out. They use Cor-Tek specifically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squier#Serial_number_tracing
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I will, both with our inside guy and our regional rep when he visits shortly before NAMM.

Not, just so anyone reading knows, because I'm concerned with factory conditions. We wouldn't put up with it in the States, but conditions are different elsewhere. What is considered unacceptable to us is a great alternative to dirt-floor poverty elsewhere.

It is, however, a trust issue for me. So far FMIC has been a great company to work with at all levels. As I said, I asked point-blank about product origin, and if they're currently subbing product out I'd want to know why they didn't just tell me in the first place; either their own reps are ignorant or they just casually lied to me. Or, your information is incorrect. We'll see and I'll report what they tell me even if it means resurrecting this sure to be epic thread.

FWIW, I love my Chinese Squier with American Custom Shop pickups and serial-numbered CTS pots. The CV '60s jazz I started with was a pretty dang good instrument to begin with, and it took upgrades and an incredibly low setup with a minimum of fret filing and tweaking. It's quickly become my number one bass.
 
#37
iunno said:
Should be a Sqiuer IMO, China has more than earned their reputation for making cheap poor quality crap.
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I can't believe that this mentality still exists. Sure, cheap crap is made in China - because that is what the customers ordered.

They can make ANYTHING in China from cheap crap to Nikon cameras, Sony products, Apple products and some dang nice instruments.

China not only has the newest, most advanced manufacturing plants in the world, they also have the people to work in them - something that few other places can offer. Working conditions have drastically improved over the last 10 years. Factory workers have many paid Holidays, all living expenses (housing, food, clothing) supplied, Unemployment insurance, FREE Healthcare, etc. Wages have increased 8-10x.

While you may not be able to comprehend the thought of working on an assembly line, the average China worker is better off than most people working at Wal-Mart or McDonald's here, and a LOT better off than working in the fields in their little home towns.

BTW - the Cort video was made in Korea, and seems like a bunch of whiny disgruntled employees complaining about things that go on all the time in business everywhere.
 
#40
azzyrazzy said:
Well, IMO and as I see it, the Fender company has different quality/production lines. Unfortunately it is also differentiated by country and that does confuse things. So let's say for instance that Fender has these lines of basses:

1. Budget
2. Standard
3. Premium
4. Custom Shop

If this was it, and the quality of wood, hardware and workmanship got better for each line, it would be easy to understand. You could say "I got a Fender Precision Premium" etc and it would be clear.

Unfortunately, people (and especially patriotic Americans, no offense intended) are very interested in where the products are made or assembled, and will choose their instrument with this factor in mind in addition to the actual quality of the instrument in question.

This is why Fender names them differently in stead:
1. Made in China
2. Made in Mexico/Japan
3. Made in USA
4. Made in USA Custom Shop

A complication is that some basses are only available from a certain production line. They don not make every bass model available in all production lines.

To further complicate things, a bass build is not rocket science, and thus you can have great instruments coming from each of these production countries. So even though the quality of hardware and wood may be lower in the low labor cost factories (as intended, because it is their Budget line), you could end up with a great instrument from whichever country, and maybe with a replacement pickup or tuners or minor fret job etc, you could have a great sounding and playing bass.

So it's funny to read posts like yours, because you liked a bass in the "1. Budget"-line as described above, but you seem to think it's strange that the budget line is made in China. As you see, it all makes sense though. If you like it, you like it. Toss the predjudice, buy it, mod it or not, and be happy, brother !

Correct me if I'm wrong :)
Click to expand...

IMO/IME, "the quality of wood, hardware and workmanship DOES get better for each line".... I tend to buy the highest quality instrument I can reasonably afford, when I buy... and I won't lie - as a patriotic American, it certainly doesn't hurt my feelings that the highest quality in this case is also MIA...

I will also readily admit that the lower lines have really upped their game, and the quality differences have definitely gotten smaller - but they DO still exist, and as a player - I still notice them... Granted, the law of diminishing returns comes into play here - but I am willing to pay more for a higher quality product, even if the quality differences are small... I also mitigate that by nearly always buying used, and hawking bargains...

Lastly - as a proud American who has served his country, I *try* to buy American whenever possible - and certainly wouldn't hold it against another for doing likewise, and supporting their own country - in fact, I would respect it...


- georgestrings
 

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