a louder, better rumble 200?

[pushingbass]

hello talkbass!

i need a new bass amp because my old crate 100 watt combo is not working anymore.
so i tried various bass amps the last months like markbass, fender, ampeg, gallien krueger and so on.
i liked the tone of the rumble 200 combo the most, maybe because of the 15 speaker. but i am concerned that the combo alone delivers just 140 watts.
the tone of the rumble 500 was not so my thing.
so i had an idea how to get a louder rumble 200 sound:

buy a 115 fender cab and a matching head the warwick gnome i pro.
the cab works with 8 ohm and the warwick amp delivers 180 watts with 8 ohm.
the cab works with 300 watts rms so should be a good match right?

i was looking for a combo but from what i was reading in the inet it seems a cab and head is more flexible and generally louder than a combo with comparable watts. ( dunno why though)

so i have 0 zero experience with cab and head matching and therefore would this warwick head work welll with the fender cab?
is there something else i have to consider?

this idea apart from beeing a alternative to the fender combo i seem to have more for the moneY:

666 euro fender rumble 200 combo (140 watts)
vs
399 euro fender cab and 248 euro warwick head, cab cable 18 euro : 665 euro (180 watts)

what are your thoughts?

 

[lug]

The difference between 140 and 180 watts given everything else equal is almost imperceptible. The speaker cab's relative efficiency will make a much bigger difference.

 

[pushingbass]

i havent found data about the speakers efficiency but maybe the fender cabs speaker is stronger since it handles 300 watts rms and the speaker in the combo only 140 watts?
i could also buy another head that produces 200/250 watts which is the great flexible thing about cab and head pairing concept.
i feel a bit limited with the combo.
is there something else i am missing? i feel 200 watts should be enough because im striving towards cristall clear deep punch with my fingers.
and i really dont want to add another cab to the rumble combo just to get to the 200 watts. seems very uneconomic to me

 

[Aloe]

well, modular way is more flexible indeed, but that's mostly a freedom to change amp or cab separately. it could be more economical to get a more high-powered head from the start (like something rated around 350-500W), even provided there's really not that much difference between 140w and 250w. at some point you'll need a second cab for being louder, no matter if you go with a combo or modular. you'll hit it literally a few dBs later with a more high powered amp, not like twice the volume

please also consider that while cabs color your sound, your head may do this as well. IOW, the same cab with a Warwick head, or a Markbass, or whatever -- will sound differently from a Rumble head

 

[RColie]

1. You can get the Fender 115 Rumble cab as an extension to the Rumble 200 combo. Much louder than the combo alone.
2. You can get another rumble 200 combo and chain them together using the effects sends/returns.
3. More speaker surface is much more important than a few extra watts.

Good luck!

 

[RColie]

And go on over to the Fender Rumble Club for lots of friendly information.

 

[pushingbass]

so speaker area > watts in regards of loudness!

what if i buy two 115 cabs and pair it with the warwick head? will i have then 4 ohm impedance? because the head has 280 watts in 4 ohm. is it even possible to connect it that way?

so 280 watts and 215 > one rumble 200 combo and 115 cab (200 watts) ?

two rumble 200combos together might bring then also 280 watts right?

 

[Aloe]

so speaker area > watts in regards of loudness!

well, doubling the watts is +3dB (provided the speaker is able to handle that without stress), doubling the speaker area is also +3dB.

what if i buy two 115 cabs and pair it with the warwick head? will i have then 4 ohm impedance

yup

so 280 watts and 215 > one rumble 200 combo and 115 cab (200 watts) ?

a bit. not all people do hear a 1-2dB difference in a loudness comparison, and that's what you gonna get at best.

if you want a tad more, get a 500W head, it would be a good match for two 300W cabs.

 

[Medicine Man]

In my opinion, it depends on what your playing situation is. If you were getting by off the Crate, a Rumble 200 is is great way to go, since you already are partial to that sound. The gnome head and a rumble cab wont be perceived as any louder than the combo. If you need more volume, the Rumble 200 supports an 8 ohm extension cab, which you can expand to later if the combo can't keep up. I see people gig these combo amps all the time. Here in the US, they are a top value, but they get marked up in euros. Most gigs the combo will be enough, and with an extension cab few would struggle. (By the time you buy the combo and the extension cab, you could almost have bought a vintage voiced Barefaced 2x10 and a small head seperate, which would be almost as loud but way more portable.) I recommend just getting the combo for now and seeing if you even have more volume need.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

hello talkbass!

i need a new bass amp because my old crate 100 watt combo is not working anymore.
so i tried various bass amps the last months like markbass, fender, ampeg, gallien krueger and so on.
i liked the tone of the rumble 200 combo the most, maybe because of the 15 speaker. but i am concerned that the combo alone delivers just 140 watts.
the tone of the rumble 500 was not so my thing.
so i had an idea how to get a louder rumble 200 sound:

buy a 115 fender cab and a matching head the warwick gnome i pro.
the cab works with 8 ohm and the warwick amp delivers 180 watts with 8 ohm.
the cab works with 300 watts rms so should be a good match right?

i was looking for a combo but from what i was reading in the inet it seems a cab and head is more flexible and generally louder than a combo with comparable watts. ( dunno why though)

so i have 0 zero experience with cab and head matching and therefore would this warwick head work welll with the fender cab?
is there something else i have to consider?

this idea apart from beeing a alternative to the fender combo i seem to have more for the moneY:

666 euro fender rumble 200 combo (140 watts)
vs
399 euro fender cab and 248 euro warwick head, cab cable 18 euro : 665 euro (180 watts)

what are your thoughts?

‘If I understand what your qualifications are:

1) You don’t like Rumble’s sound

Is it the head, cab or a combination of the both? Fender’s Rumble line IMO is not quite what I would call entry level gear, but I would say more like advanced hobbiest level. (Other may not agree with that assessment and that is ok). They’re going going to be limitation to achieve that price point.


2) You don’t want a second cab.

There are more efficient cabs on the market which may create enough dBs that a second cab is not necessary.

3) Where or start?

I would start with the capabilities of one cab that will meet your needs. The brand doesn’t matter as much as the cab efficiency, its frequency range, and the wattage capability, in that order. Once you have that information and select your cab, then start your shopping for an amp to power it.

 

[LHbassist]

I have eight speaker cabinets, and four heads. I have a GK MB 150,and a Rumble 200. For well over 50 years- yeah, I'm THAT old- I have been pondering why I even bother trying with combo amps. I'm 71 now, still playing, still loving to do so. But our bodies just do not like lifting heavy stuff as we age, it can literally put us out of commission. And I used to be a construction laborer, so lifting really heavy things was never a problem.. That said, it ain't like it used to be. I bought the 200 after comparing it head to head with a 500. The 500's 2-10's are simply, as a standalone unit, unable to sound loud, clear and not distorted when you are at a normal gig volume. I know this also, from playing through Rumble 500 house amps. At GC, where I compared the two, yes- the 500 has more power, and you can feel it. But the 200's 1-15, seems better able, in that box, to sound fuller and more efficient. I played a friend's 200 with a GK 1-15 extension cab at a gig, and it sounded great. Here's the real dilemma. I love the 200's light weight, and relative efficiency. The thing I really don't like about it, is the non-defeatable limiting circuit. It renders this to the Peavey/ Acoustic level of combos. I'd like to have that switchable, and adjustable, as I think after all this time, I'm a better judge of just how I'll let limiting affect my sound. The other thing is this- and it is true for all combos. You are 'stuck' with that amp, and that speaker. As an example- I was hired for a gig, with a variety singer, who did Elvis, and Neil Diamond. One of the band members was doing live- on the fly sound (red flag) It was the drummer (HUGE red flag) who promised me, that all I needed was a small combo- as he'd give me "plenty" of bass in the monitors. Well, take a wild guess what happened. Six foldbacks when three would have sufficed, no bass in any of them, oversized, over mic'ed drumset being the loudest thing, screamin' overly loud bad mix in the monitors, and the Rumble at like 8-9 on the master, input on about 4, the internal limiter rendering the amp barely audible onstage. This all with just a Fender P-bass. I even had to put the combo UP on a roadcase, to HEAR what I was doing. Even after pulling the cables to disable the monitors on my side, I wished I'd brought at least one of my more powerful/ audible rigs. Even an extension cab would have been welcome. "Don't worry, you won't need it" Yeah, sure. I hated that gig. So- there I was, no options at all. Stuck because I went against my better judgement, and fell for the same crap I've heard for most of my 'career.' At this time in my life- I find it difficult to trust anyone in this crummy business.
If you are playing with real pros that you know well, the Rumble alone should be fine. But if you aren't sure, a more powerful head and high quality cab will be better. I'd rather turn a more powerful amp down, than have to listen to my own amp doing an impression of a bass kazoo.

 

[Bassamatic]

Don't get hung up on the Watts.

While doubling the Watts is +3dB Power increase, you really cannot hear that. It is a barely perceptible difference. However - doubling the CONE AREA - even at the same power, produces roughly twice the volume to our ears. The same thing for +3dB sensitivity for a driver. It is acoustical level vs. electrical power.

A 400 W amp may sound much louder than a 200W amp, but it is likely that the more expensive amp has a better and more efficient speaker in it to cause the difference. The advantage of having a more powerful amp is that you can run more speakers with it.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

You'll get a lot more bang-for-your-buck increasing speaker area than increasing watts. You'll need 10x the power to "double" the volume. All else being equal (and it's not), you'd need 1400W to be 2x louder than the 140W amp. 180W or 200W isn't going to do much in itself.

Speaker efficiency also comes into play, but you can't use power handling of a particular cabinet to estimate efficiency. That's how loud the cab is for a certain input power. You can effectively get much higher volume at lower watts from a very efficient speaker vs. an inefficient speaker.

Also, don't discount the sound of the cabinet in all this. The difference between the Rumble 200 and Rumble 500 is far more likely to be due to cabinet than the amp. If you like the 15 and want more volume, I'd consider the 500 head and 2 15" cabs, if budget allows.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Try out a Rumble 500 head with a Rumble 1x15.

 

[ChrisB2]

Buy used.

 

[pushingbass]

1) You don’t like Rumble’s sound

Is it the head, cab or a combination of the both?

i LOVE the rumble 200 sound! played it at a music store in munich and couldnt stop playing. i will never forget its tone. achieved it with flat eqs, no effects on the amp and tone/treble knob shut down.
one word: muscles

did not like the rumble 500 sound. was a used combo in good condition and trustworthy seller tough. but it sounded so weak. no attack or punch.
i also liked the ampeg rb 112.
last year i was blown away from a gk combo. cannot remember which model it was. punchy and clear.
the markbass with 300 watts and 12 speaker, which name i dont remember, sounded clear and midrangy. weak sound basically.

2) You don’t want a second cab.

thats right. i want one cab that delivers about 200/300 watts good power. i know i shouldnt focus too much on watts but as a bare minimum figure it helps.
because i love the rumble tone i was thinking about buying the 115 fender cab. 210s not likely because the rumble 500 experience.
and 410 cabs are too heavy.
fender 115 cab weighs only 1 kilo more than the rumble 500.

the thing is the only amp i ever owned was the crate bx 100 with a 15 speaker. and i want something louder. 200 watts might not be way louder but a good cab might make the difference.
and i would like to go the head n' cab route because often times you can just bring your head to the venue and plug it to cabs that are already there. sure then i wont have rumble tone but i like the idea.
i need a bass amp for rehearsals with my metal/rock band in the first place. and im starving because my amp broke down in january

but thank you for all the great answears so far!

maybe the rumble 200 combo is enough. i dont know. i just want to play and not end up in the crate situation where i have to crank up 2/3 master and gain half up to get heard in the reheasal room. altough its a small room and the drummer has a over 10 k worth ironmaiden drum kito_0

 

[pushingbass]

hey i have an offer to buy a used ashdown 115 compact sealed cab with 300 watts power rating for 150 euros.
would that cab properly match the 115 fender rumble cab with the warwick gnome amp head?
a 2 x 115 cab so to speak.