[ABG] Dogal Hellborg Nickel Flatwound on Braided Rope Core Strings

[Karl Kaminski]

Installation

G .037” 0.94mm
D .054” 1.34mm
A .076” 1.93mm
E .091” 2.32mm *silks delicate/ratty
B .108” 2.74mm *silks delicate/ratty

Ball to Silk length 36±”

The wraps are nice smooth, but the B,E silks have much to be desired—they're a bit ratty out of the package. The higher string wraps however were very nice. I definitely needed to adjust my setup with more action for the G string, along with some intonation adjustments.



First Impressions

I did not like the initial unfocused floppy B, and the super light G. I’ll see how the B and E settle-in with tension—they might stiffen up over the next few weeks? On the second day the strings started to settle in but, as I feared the B will most likely not work well on ABG—its tension is too low and stiff.

I think the A and D represent similar to their 'Rounds' brethren, and the most authentic to what you’d expect from an EB Med-Light fast string.

But wow, the initial impression of the G string was super guitar-like, very light (yet stiff, like a jazz guitar set) and ‘sing-able’ but not alot of low fundamental or punch. (These would be great for modern slap—they are crisp, quick, and pop great.) I could imagine quite a few TBers not liking the slinky guitar-esque G and HighC, but I think for some arrangements the E-highC tuning could work great from me.

Probably the best part of the set for me is the smooth wrap—they are very silent on ABG.

Overall, I would compare these very closely to TIJF, with the Dogal's having more flexibility and expression in the hand.

Granted all these impressions are based on how these strings interact with an ABG and no amp. Having played the Hellborg Rounds for a few years on my EBs, Im very happy with them—it just not the focus here. I'll most likely move these to my G&L L2500.

B string
As stated earlier is just not 'centered' enough, no punch, and just a bit too flabby for my taste on ABG. Again, on EB with Mag pickups I bet these would be fine. In the DEMO, check out the Low Groove section, while thick its not punchy IMO.



Demo

Examples of Mic and Pickup
All tracks are dry/no plugins.
Headphones suggested.

Gear:
Emerald Balor5
Graphtech GHOST pickup system
Warm Audio WA-47jr Mic
MOTU 8Pre-ES into Logic Pro
Lumix DCG-100 HD/24fps



0:00 Title
0:10 Full Range - Across the neck
0:56 Low Groove
1:37 Chordal Passages

 

[AlexMG]

I liked the HB rounds a lot.

The best flats in the world to me are the Dogal R44s!

 

[HaphAsSard]

B .108” 2.74mm

That's crazy, in itself as well as considering they're listed as having a .124" low B:
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I'd tell you to enquire into having a replacement sent but, ahem, it's nearing summer vacation over in Venice:
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I know. It's a whole thing-a.
(Whawt? *I* get to say it!)

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Hmmm. I didn’t think of even looking at the specs-kinda just when along my routine.

Good point I’ll double check it. But might be a good reason for a replacement

 

[Karl Kaminski]

yeah!? just double check it.. the B is .108" (thats way off spec) ...emailing Stringsbymail now (I'll post an update)


Edit: Gotta say, I ALWAYS have a great CS experience at SBM. They were great at quickly sending out a replacement. Looking forward to reinstalling and testing. Thanks @HaphAsSard for catching that— I might've 'wrote it off' without the reminder

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Hmmm, going back and listening to the Hellborg Rounds on my Furch SW5 ABG I can hear the Flats being more THUMPY, shorter sustain ie: punchier. While I think some TBers may really like that, their cost is just too high to be justified IMO—there are ALOT of flat sets in the sub-$100 range (Galli, LaBella) that will "take you there".

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Well, got the replacement B string. Don't know what to think— it's also .109"± Either Dogal's/SBM info is incorrect or theres a batch of .109" Bs in the production line. Gotta say the Dogal site is awful for full details! Nothing there as far as true specs, just alot of marketeering.

I'll replace it tonight and see how it plays tomorrow. [Only thing visibly 'better' with the replacement a nice silk—as expected on a new string.]

 

[e-flat]

I liked the HB rounds a lot.

The best flats in the world to me are the Dogal R44s!

Agreed. The R44 are still some of my favorites, especially for making a Jazz Bass thump just right
I still want to try these Helborg flats some day!

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Well, the replacement B sounds/feels/plays like the original—So no need to post a sample. the specs should be updated to a .109±" B

Im a big fan of these strings as well as the rounds (on EB) but for the price IMHO I don't feel there is any "value added". Moreover, on ABG the low end just doesn't speak as well as other sets.

I'll definitely use this set on EB, but for the cost I can't see ever repurchasing. Had high hopes for these flats so this is disappointing.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Well, got the replacement B string. Don't know what to think— it's also .109"± Either Dogal's/SBM info is incorrect or theres a batch of .109" Bs in the production line. Gotta say the Dogal site is awful for full details! Nothing there as far as true specs, just alot of marketeering.

I'll replace it tonight and see how it plays tomorrow. [Only thing visibly 'better' with the replacement a nice silk—as expected on a new string.]

It's either of two things:
- the source of gauge info, not available on the Dogal website, was nonetheless the manufacturer, and given by them to the vendor, in which case the latter should bring the problem up the chain to the former (...in twenty days, because summer vacations), or
- it was the vendor's unsanctioned, independent initiative to make measurements from the earliest batch and publish them. Now, it was a commendable effort on their part but, as no good deed goes unpunished, it's they who should either rummage through their stock and cough up one old-batch Hellborg flatwound .125" low B for you, or refund you for not having provided what they said it says on the lid.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

exactly... nevertheless Ive had 'my fill' of the Dogal experience. There are so many other brands and sets in the sub$100 range, I can get my music out with some of those


Though... I would still be interested to hear from others with a DH flat low B—what is the gauge of your Hellborg Flat B string? A quick consensus here will yield empirical data—always better than third party hearsay.

 

[HaphAsSard]

exactly... nevertheless Ive had 'my fill' of the Dogal experience. There are so many other brands and sets in the sub$100 range, I can get my music out with some of those


Though... I would still be interested to hear from others with a DH flat low B—what is the gauge of your Hellborg Flat B string? A quick consensus here will yield empirical data—always better than third party hearsay.

(I know it was a generic "your" - *I* am probably going to try the R 44 sooner than I'll be any of their Hellborg sets - but)
you could also ask the question in the general Dogal JH string thread

Dogal Hellborg Strings​

as well as contact @Diddywah

Dogal Hellborg Flats JH172​

and any TBer who mentions having bought the 5-string set (or the 6-string one) in either thread. At least one poster has had trouble fitting the low B through the body (not surefire proof, but it would seem to point to the gauge being 125 in their set, rather than 109).

 

[Karl Kaminski]

(I know it was a generic "your" - *I* am probably going to try the R 44 sooner than I'll be any of their Hellborg sets - but)
you could also ask the question in the general Dogal JH string thread

hah 'great minds' just did that

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Just heard back from SBM, they confirmed that their other 5/6strings sets also have a .108" B. They have an inquiry out to Dogal —so maybe we'll hear something in Sept.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Just heard back from SBM, they confirm that other 5/6strings sets also have a .108" B. They have an inquiry out to Dogal —so maybe we'll hear something in Sept.

Did they say who the source for the .124" figure was?
Was it in a Dogal data sheet, or did someone at SbM measure it (in which latter case we would learn a .124" physically existed at some point)?

 

[Karl Kaminski]

no. SBM measured their other sets. ultimately its just a typo error, the "where when and how" isnt too important IMO.

The more think of it, a .124" B wouldn't naturally match the rest of the set—I'd imagine a .118" max considering the rest of the gauges. But at this point knowing that other 5/6 string sets have a .108 B—and playing two of them here—I see/hear/feel they aren't for me (at least not on ABG).

I think the big takeaway here is manufacturers should provide complete specs on their websites to help customers. Companies like GHS really do it right.

 

[Killing Floor]

Thread title sounds like a story that ends with “I’m a frayed knot”

 

[Karl Kaminski]

 

[HaphAsSard]

no. SBM measured their other sets.

I get that they just measured them for you. I meant they may have done so on one of the sets they *initially* received.

ultimately its just a typo error,

A typo of what? How does one type "124" instead of "108"? It's odd.

the "where when and how" isnt too important IMO.

I'm not trying to assign blame. As I said, knowing that it was SbM would mean that a larger low B did exist at some point.

I think the big takeaway here is manufacturers should provide complete specs on their websites to help customers. Companies like GHS really do it right.

Except they don't with their double-bass strings (marketed under the Innovation Strings brand). Ditto for D'Addario and others.
I agree it would be nice if all companies did, but Dogal is hardly the only one that didn't get the memo, or hasn't applied the memo consistently.
(I haven't thoroughly checked, but gauges for the Hellborg flats may be the only ones for electric bass they haven't officially disclosed - even those for the Hellborg rounds are there.)