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About to order my first amp - try and stop me!
- Thread starter neutron619
- Start date
I don't know why you insist on buying a Rumble, you are looking for a neutral amp for you Helix, and this is the opposite.
- Because I'm inexperienced and have never bought a large amp before - but I trust the brand and know nothing about and have no experience of any of the others. Reading the specs, they all basically look far more expensive for fewer features, which to my mind either means you're paying extra for the particular sound the brand sells, or the brand itself, or the fancy yellow cones - but probably not for any increased facility to adequately represent a bass line and deliver it to a large audience.
- Because, as I've already gone to some lengths to say above, I don't think the difference between one amp and another is going to make a blind bit of difference if you heard some of my wacky, ambient Helix patches.
- Because I have a Fender Champion 100 guitar amp in my lounge which is no doubt just as "coloured" as any other amp, but i can still manage to make a strat and an LP sound the way I want to through that, which means that at least one of the Helix or the amp is providing enough adjustment to get to where I want to be.
- Because I can afford the Rumbles, want a combo amp and would like to solve that problem straightforwardly so I can get back to making more wacky Helix patches and playing good music.
In spite of my earlier comment about not knowing much about other brands than Fender, I will do some Googling this morning. The same has been, and continues to be true of other brands too, but I make no promises to "see the light" at this point.
Hello, since you will use the Helix into the return of the amp to use the power section only, why dont you look at blackstar U250 active cab (note, not the combo, the cab)?
That's an active bass cabinet with no built in pre, so you will go in with a cannon from the Helix (remember you have to disable the IR's in your effect chains), this way you are going to have a nice sounding, cheaper (than the rumble 500) 2X10 cab which can be used for your purposes with no built in pre which will color your sound anyway, if you need more power in the future (but trust me, this thing is loud) you can chain an unlimited number of U250 cabs since you do not have to dial with cabs impedences, they can be easily linked, I've used it with Darkglass pre's to gig and it was awesome
That's an active bass cabinet with no built in pre, so you will go in with a cannon from the Helix (remember you have to disable the IR's in your effect chains), this way you are going to have a nice sounding, cheaper (than the rumble 500) 2X10 cab which can be used for your purposes with no built in pre which will color your sound anyway, if you need more power in the future (but trust me, this thing is loud) you can chain an unlimited number of U250 cabs since you do not have to dial with cabs impedences, they can be easily linked, I've used it with Darkglass pre's to gig and it was awesome
The Rumble doesn't seem like the choice for a clean, full range flat response monitor for use with a Helix. Even bypassing the preamp, by running into the effects return or power amp in jack, won't get you past the speaker cabinet which is itself voiced.
The problem is FRFR monitoring that can handle bass at volume is not cheap. I would set sights on a QSC K12.2 or something comparable.
The problem is FRFR monitoring that can handle bass at volume is not cheap. I would set sights on a QSC K12.2 or something comparable.
My fault for not specifying further, but I didn't want to spit out specific frequencies and be off...let's be honest, the fine folk here at TB will certainly call me out on it
After using two combos (1x10 and 1x12) and a pair of 15" cabs, I'll note that the amps/cabs do "rumble" as advertised...but one person's "warm and thick" is another person's "Muddy and inarticulate". Mids can cover a broad frequency range, so the (to my perception "muddy") low, low-mids might be there, but something that will be more articulate and cutting was lacking IME with multiple heads and compared to other cabs.
Maybe that's the tone the OP is going for, or it suits them now...if the goal is something that doesn't have much coloration (since they're going to use the Helix for amp models), there's many manufacturers that might not fit the bill based on that...not to pick on the Rumble series, but it was mentioned. If it were an Ampeg Rocket Bass combo (or the newer fliptop portaflex cabs, which I didn't really dig either) I'd be saying the same thing
For something vintage or a genre that's "more felt than heard" I'd probably grab a Rumble too. As always, if it's working for anyone, then having that part taken care of is a positive thing. Having options and variety is also great, I'd rather a world where the Rumble series does exist, than not
In spite of my earlier comment about not knowing much about other brands than Fender, I will do some Googling this morning. The same has been, and continues to be true of other brands too, but I make no promises to "see the light" at this point.
Nor should you. Everyone has different prerequisites, desires, and objectives, and there's plenty of room for the wide range of alternatives, otherwise, they wouldn't be economically viable.
As an aside, I reached out to Barefaced late last night/early this morning. I had a response very quickly and their communication string was concise and timely. I'll was impressed by their customer service, thanks to Isaac at Barefaced. I'll be completing the deal today.
Since your Helix is providing the tone shaping, just get a powered PA speaker.
Otherwise, you'll spend a ton of time creating a tone in HX Edit, get it sounding great in your headphones...and it'll be completely different when you plug into your amp.
You can effectively demo powered speakers by playing music that you know well through them - a powered speaker that sounds natural (and with solid lows) should do well for you.
Otherwise, you'll spend a ton of time creating a tone in HX Edit, get it sounding great in your headphones...and it'll be completely different when you plug into your amp.
You can effectively demo powered speakers by playing music that you know well through them - a powered speaker that sounds natural (and with solid lows) should do well for you.
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Wow! What a lot of great discussion! I see some of my friends from the TalkBass Fender Rumble Club here, and some Rumble owners that haven't visited there yet. I'd like to invite those Rumble owners to click the link and come tell us about their Rumble for a free membership. Pics aren't required, but are appreciated.
Good luck, @neutron619 !
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Wow! What a lot of great discussion! I see some of my friends from the TalkBass Fender Rumble Club here, and some Rumble owners that haven't visited there yet. I'd like to invite those Rumble owners to click the link and come tell us about their Rumble for a free membership. Pics aren't required, but are appreciated.
Good luck, @neutron619 !
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Not a combo, but the Peavey MiniMAX is very flat with all controls at center.
Ok.
Maybe.
But then hook it up to a cabinet, and it's voiced.
I always chuckle a bit at the concept of "flat". It all goes out the window when you send it to an enclosure, and then stick the enclosure in a room. Dian in whatever you think is flat, then move the enclosure to a different space, well, you're at square one.
All a huge waste of time, IMHO. There are sooo many variables and everyone hears differently. Why have knobs on the amp at all?
Sure, all true. But assuming everything is being compared in the same room, the room coloration is a push. Cab coloration is certainly a thing, but again if using separate cab and head, can use the same cab for both heads and discount the cab sound. (I'll come back to that.)
There are clearly heads that have a specific colored sound--the Ampeg SVT sound is one such. People like those sounds. People BUY those sounds. But while I've never owned a real SVT, if I hook my SCR-DI to my amp it sounds (to me) like what I think of as an SVT sound. So while I think the cabs do have a coloration, I think they are the lesser part of the overall coloration. Now consider the Rumbles. Where's the boosted lows/scooped mid/boosted highs sound they have come from? I don't think it's the cab--I've heard anecdotal reports of people using the Fender cabs (which have the same speakers as the combos) with other amps and not having the Rumble sound. I think a large part of the Rumble sound is in the amp, and not the cab (or the speakers in the combo), just like the SVT sound.
So are you really "at square one"? I don't think so. If you walk into a venue with a Rumble, you're going to get something Rumble-ish sounding. And then you use the knobs to fine tune to what YOU want it to sound like.
So this really is the question--do you want to start with a defined sound (Rumble/SVT/whatever) that some amps specifically give, and tune for your ears from there, or do you want to grab a less-colored amp (the MiniMAX or other flat-ish amp) and tweak knobs or add pedals to get YOUR sound?
Of course, bass cabinets are veeeery coloured. Still, in the context of a bass amp, there are many amps (and combos) that are, well, at least more neutral than others. Also, whatever you're doing with a Helix, you can always disable the cabinet emulation.
By the way, with a Helix, you could very well just use one of these: https://www.thomann.de/it/alto_ts_415.htm
(Just an example).
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Or as I mentioned earlier, run it through the effects return of the Rumble.
Way more flexibility.
Hi, neut. Over from the Rumble thread. I A/B'd the 500 and 800 side-by-each in my studio. Sound-wise I liked the 800 better. I tho't the neo speakers were tighter/crisper sounding.
But the power flexibility really sold me. I frequently gig it "dimed" in low power mode and it does really well. As a direct comparison tho' with the R100 (1x12") and the R800 (2x10"), the 800 has half again the speaker surface area as the R100. I'm not positive here, but I believe, pound for pound, the 800 has more sound capability in low power than the R100. This is just to address your concern that R100 was maybe not be quite enough. Add a cab and get 200W AND more volume. Total flexibility. All the way up to 800W and 2 additional cabs for Grateful Dead-style stacks. Well, almost...
Tim
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@trseal - Tim, thank you. This is a really helpful bit of experience / observation you've shared.
Having spent yesterday reading comments here and researching, I'm increasingly sold on the 800 since I learned about the low-power switch and it's equivalence (to some unspecified degree) with the smaller Rumbles. I note particularly your comments about surface area - I wonder if more area at the same power is more or less efficient, but I suspect more since the speaker travel will be less for the same movement of air...(?)
And of course, as I said over on the Rumble thread, this seems to be a perfect solution for any bass player, since the answer is always "more power, bigger amp", even if in this case the point is to take a step towards "bedroom" / "small practice" / "quiet". What's not to like?
Having spent yesterday reading comments here and researching, I'm increasingly sold on the 800 since I learned about the low-power switch and it's equivalence (to some unspecified degree) with the smaller Rumbles. I note particularly your comments about surface area - I wonder if more area at the same power is more or less efficient, but I suspect more since the speaker travel will be less for the same movement of air...(?)
And of course, as I said over on the Rumble thread, this seems to be a perfect solution for any bass player, since the answer is always "more power, bigger amp", even if in this case the point is to take a step towards "bedroom" / "small practice" / "quiet". What's not to like?
