Acoustic guitar to bass conversion - strings

[Dan_reeves]

So I put this together over the weekend - the full thread is here: Sort of NBD

I just wanted to throw this up here for anyone considering a conversion like this and acknowledge string options.

It is a standard acoustic guitar scale, 25”. I used a short tail piece for bass, so from tail piece to nut is about 30.5”. In other words, standard short scale strings work. In order to set up I used what I had on hand, which was D’Addario EXL170S. I used them more to get string spacing and set up stuff correct, but they fit fine and sound ok. Next, I am going to try The Ibanez brand strings for Mikro bass from Amazon. They are meant for the 28.6” scale, so we’ll see how they work out. I heard that people who have done this conversion before also use a 5 string set, throw out the G string, and then instead of tuning BEAD tuning the thicker strings to EADG. I bought the 5 string Mikro set to experiment. If that doesn’t work, I will go with something like heavier gauge Labella DTFs in short scale.

 

[Aidil]

Unless you're going to make it unlined fretless or have it refreted on a new fretboard, the frets are in the wrong position for a 30" scale, no matter what string gauges you're going to put on.

 

[seamonkey]

A regular 34" 5-string set of bass strings can work with a 25" scale for EADG turning.

Put the low B on and tune it to E
This is the same as putting the same string on a 34" scale and fingering at the 5th fret.

Same thing for the rest ... put on the E string and tune it to A
etc.

There are actually 25" scale bases that use this technique.

In any case. If you're trying to record bass parts use regular guitar strings and a guitar to MIDI like Jam Origin – Audio to MIDI
A google bass guitar sample or modeling library driven by midi does a great job. Works also for Organ, and Synth sounds.

 

[Dan_reeves]

Unless you're going to make it unlined fretless or have it refreted on a new fretboard, the frets are in the wrong position for a 30" scale, no matter what string gauges you're going to put on.

Yeah, I know that. I am just saying short scale strings fit without having to do weird winding or unwinding stuff - no doctoring strings. I fully realize it’s a 25 scale. It actually plays fine as is and sounds not too bad as is. The action is just a bit high for my tastes so I will put something on with a bit more tension.

 

[Dan_reeves]

A regular 34" 5-string set of bass strings can work with a 25" scale for EADG turning.

Put the low B on and tune it to E
This is the same as putting the same string on a 34" scale and fingering at the 5th fret.

Same thing for the rest ... put on the E string and tune it to A
etc.

There are actually 25" scale bases that use this technique.

In any case. If you're trying to record bass parts use regular guitar strings and a guitar to MIDI like Jam Origin – Audio to MIDI
A google bass guitar sample or modeling library driven by midi does a great job. Works also for Organ, and Synth sounds.

Yeah the issue on this with using a typical let’s say .130 string from a typical 34” scale set is that on this the fat part of the string is going to ride a lot on the tuner, which I don’t really want. Also, the windings at the ball end is so thick it doesn’t fit in the string slot of the tailpiece without filing a bunch - a .100 was a pretty tight fit. I had a Pro Steel B string lying around so I tried it.

Also just to clarify, this goes with my other reply above, I realize that where the frets/bridge relationship is what determines scale length. I meant more the winding length, if that’s the right term? Meaning strings that you’d potentially use for a 30” scale bass works because the the silk is in the right place as far as the tuner/nut is concerned. Maybe I am using the wrong terms and confusing the issue - but what I have on there is working well right now.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Unless you're going to make it unlined fretless or have it refreted on a new fretboard, the frets are in the wrong position for a 30" scale, no matter what string gauges you're going to put on.

They're in the right position for a 25". As the OP said, mentioning other scales was, indirectly, a reference to their winding length: the separate trapeze tailpiece allows one to use (short-scale) off-the-shelf strings, without having to unwind them to length for them to fit into the tuning posts, because they already taper at the right spot (between nut and leftmost post).

the windings at the ball end is so thick it doesn’t fit in the string slot of the tailpiece without filing a bunch - a .100 was a pretty tight fit.

If opening the slot is doable, I would do it and try the 5-string Ibanez Mikro set if I were you. Then again, I might instead find the 100 low E being just fine for my playing taste, and leave it at that.

 

[Dan_reeves]

They're in the right position for a 25". As the OP said, mentioning other scales was, indirectly, a reference to their winding length: the separate trapeze tailpiece allows one to use (short-scale) off-the-shelf strings, without having to unwind them to length for them to fit into the tuning posts, because they already taper at the right spot (between nut and leftmost post).


If opening the slot is doable, I would do it and try the 5-string Ibanez Mikro set if I were you. Then again, I might instead find the 100 low E being just fine for my playing taste, and leave it at that.

Thanks - yeah, I may decided to ultimately go that route. As it stands today, I have a little bit of relief in the neck, and the string spacing at the 12th fret is about 3mm. So, its a little bit high for my liking, but necessary to not fret-out. I think more tension would be a good idea, assuming I wanted to lower the action further. But its that classic action/playability dance we all do. The GHS set I have on the way are short scale Boomers .50-.107, which should have more tension than the XL's, according to the numbers. But I agree, that .130 might be necessary to get me where I want to be, not only for action, but also a less tubby tone from the low E.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Thanks - yeah, I may decided to ultimately go that route. As it stands today, I have a little bit of relief in the neck, and the string spacing at the 12th fret is about 3mm. So, its a little bit high for my liking, but necessary to not fret-out. I think more tension would be a good idea, assuming I wanted to lower the action further. But its that classic action/playability dance we all do. The GHS set I have on the way are short scale Boomers .50-.107, which should have more tension than the XL's, according to the numbers. But I agree, that .130 might be necessary to get me where I want to be, not only for action, but also a less tubby tone from the low E.

On the other hand, with a 130 you may lose something in terms of usable - read: non-chorusy sounding - frets the higher up the board you go. The sweet spot between these contrasting requirements, scale being equal, may be somewhere between...I dunno, 110 and 120? If only string manufacturers made them in short-scale...

Stringjoy makes shorty bass strings (32" winding length) up to 110 gauge:
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https://www.stringjoy.com/guitarstr...-long-scale-nickel-wound-bass-guitar-strings/

Pyramid makes this (not exactly cheap) short-scale 5-string set, with a 120 low B (taper at 32.677"):
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Uhm, what else? Short-scale GHS Brite Flats (the 3070 set) have a .108" low E (taper at 32.75").
If you like flats, La Bella Deep Talkin' Bass flatwound short-scale strings (32.25" winding length) come in 009 (760FM-S) and 110 (0760M-S), BUT! They also come in 128 (tapered):
La Bella 760FS-BS Flat Wound Short Scale 5-String Bass Strings
Labella 760FS-B-S - Best Bass Gear
Labella 760FL-B-S - Best Bass Gear
(The extra light 760FX-B-S and the two heaviest ones 760FM-B-S and 0760M-B-S apparently existed at one point.)
What wound probably work wonders on your conversion is a (non-existing, AFAIK) short-scale version of the 5-string Low Tension Flexible flat set (LTF-5A), with the .118" low B. If you tried the long-scale set you'd need to anchor it at a longer distance from the bridge than your current tailpiece, though. By the way, you wrote that the tailpiece to nut distance is 30.5"; how long is the tailpiece to E-string tuner one? right at 32", or a little more?

(On the less readily available side, Galli Strings say on their website that they make most of their bass guitar sets in short scale, including 5-string sets. Finally, Newtone and Pyramid make custom sets of your favourite diameters and winding lengths.)

 

[Dan_reeves]

On the other hand, with a 130 you may lose something in terms of usable - read: non-chorusy sounding - frets the higher up the board you go. The sweet spot between these contrasting requirements, scale being equal, may be somewhere between...I dunno, 110 and 120? If only string manufacturers made them in short-scale...

Stringjoy makes shorty bass strings (32" winding length) up to 110 gauge:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
https://www.stringjoy.com/guitarstr...-long-scale-nickel-wound-bass-guitar-strings/

Pyramid makes this (not exactly cheap) short-scale 5-string set, with a 120 low B (taper at 32.677"):
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Uhm, what else? Short-scale GHS Brite Flats (the 3070 set) have a .108" low E (taper at 32.75").
If you like flats, La Bella Deep Talkin' Bass flatwound short-scale strings (32.25" winding length) come in 009 (760FM-S) and 110 (0760M-S), BUT! They also come in 128 (tapered):
La Bella 760FS-BS Flat Wound Short Scale 5-String Bass Strings
Labella 760FS-B-S - Best Bass Gear
Labella 760FL-B-S - Best Bass Gear
(The extra light 760FX-B-S and the two heaviest ones 760FM-B-S and 0760M-B-S apparently existed at one point.)
What wound probably work wonders on your conversion is a (non-existing, AFAIK) short-scale version of the 5-string Low Tension Flexible flat set (LTF-5A), with the .118" low B. If you tried the long-scale set you'd need to anchor it at a longer distance from the bridge than your current tailpiece, though. By the way, you wrote that the tailpiece to nut distance is 30.5"; how long is the tailpiece to E-string tuner one? right at 32", or a little more?

(On the less readily available side, Galli Strings say on their website that they make most of their bass guitar sets in short scale, including 5-string sets. Finally, Newtone and Pyramid make custom sets of your favourite diameters and winding lengths.)

Nice, I appreciate your thoughts!

I will take a measurement later this afternoon - My guess is that its in the 32" - 33" range. I need to look them up again, but in addition to your points above I think DR makes both the Sunbeams and High Beams in 5 string short scale, which is more like a medium scale for their slightly longer distances. The tuners are Hipshot Ultralites, so the post could probably tolerate a bit of thicker wrap, but I don't like a lot of it.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I think DR makes both the Sunbeams and High Beams in 5 string short scale, which is more like a medium scale for their slightly longer distances.

Correct and correct. Sets SNMR5-45 and SMR5-45, and DR make their roundwound "short-scales" 33.75" -long, ball to taper:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Oscar Stern]

View attachment upload_2024-4-10_23-50-2.webp Ta-Da, I found these strings which could allow you to convert your Acoustic Guitar into an Acoustic Bass VI.