Active or passive DI for an active bass?

[Shenron]

I have an active Ibanez bass and basic beginner questions on DIs.

Should I get an active or passive DI to plug into a mixer?

If I use a pedalboard or pedal-like preamp or compressor, do I still need a DI before the mixer or does the pedal usually provide a suitable signal already? Can I tell this from the fact that the pedal has or doesn't have an XLR output?

Finally, what happens if I plug into the mixer directly with a jack, and no DI? Does the sound simply suck, or is it even dangerous and can damage the bass' own electronics to plug in like that?

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

Arguably, the industry standard is to connect your bass to the desk using an XLR cable. Jack cables might introduce a lower-quality bass signal, which is where balanced XLR cables excel – they protect your signal during its journey to the desk.

If your final pedal/amp has an XLR output and sounds good, you can stick with it. Otherwise, consider a dedicated DI box. Most venues and backline companies provide them.

While conventional wisdom suggests pairing active basses with passive DI boxes and vice versa, many disagree.

I am comfortable plugging my active basses into any DI box, but I tend to prefer active DI boxes with my passive basses. Passive bass + passive DI box combination is expected to provide a relatively warm / vintage sound due to pickup load; which some love, but I prefer hearing my highs crystal clear.

You may have an active bass today, but if you think that you could switch to a passive bass later on, that's one thing to consider.

Personally, I favor high-quality active DI boxes (like the Radial J48) for all my basses because they work for just about anything - that's one less thing to worry about. They also tend to send a hotter signal to the desk, which engineers generally prefer over the lower gain of passive DI boxes. But; in my experience, some active DI boxes may introduce unwanted noise to your signal, and may clip on very hot signals. J48 seems a fine choice in those regards though, and Countryman is also a popular choice.

Remember, a powered pedal or amp functions as an active DI because they don't need power from the desk.

I've also worked with passives (the Radial JDI, for example) with my active basses, but they typically have lower gain. I often need to reassure sound engineers that my setup is fine and they just need to adjust the desk gain. On the other hand, good passive boxes tend to be relatively silent and handle hotter signals better.

Even when I'm using pedals, I have never clipped any DI box so far; so don't consider actives as fragile snowflakes and passives as tanks. For a regular bassist, both options should work just fine in most situations.

 

[drpepper]

If I use a pedalboard or pedal-like preamp or compressor, do I still need a DI before the mixer or does the pedal usually provide a suitable signal already? Can I tell this from the fact that the pedal has or doesn't have an XLR output?

Finally, what happens if I plug into the mixer directly with a jack, and no DI? Does the sound simply suck, or is it even dangerous and can damage the bass' own electronics to plug in like that?

What pedals are you looking at? Many do have DIs, and yes, you can general tell by the fact that the pedal has an XLR output. But read specs.

Your mixer has 4 inputs that are combination XLR/1/4" Mic/Line. Strictly speaking, you *could* plug your bass into one of those channels or you could use a DI box. IMO though, for your office band room, neither of those options would be as desirable as using a preamp pedal. The reason is that plugging in directly or using a DI box would just be sending the raw bass sound to the mixer, which is more stark than what we're used to hearing from an amp. The mixer can be used for tone shaping through its EQ, but starting with a signal with more character gets you there more easily and adds some bass specific capabilities and features. One thing that a number of pedals have is amp and cabinet modeling/simulation. Pedals can also offer effects. You can spend anywhere from $40 for a JOYO preamp/amp modeler, to $130 for a Zoom MS60B, to $550 for a Line 6 HX Stomp, to a few pedals at the high end of the range that are over $1500 and more.

This video mentions a few and gives a pretty interesting look at the HX Stomp in use.

If you happen to get a preamp/mutli-fx/amp model pedal that doesn't have a DI, again, for your purposes in the office band room, the signal will be fine for one of the mixer's combination inputs through a 1/4".

I'd suggest youtubing for videos on various pedals.

 

[Shenron]

What pedals are you looking at? Many do have DIs, and yes, you can general tell by the fact that the pedal has an XLR output. But read specs.

I was first looking at DI options at Thomann, there are many inexpensive ones. If passive is ok, I would actually prefer it over active for the sole reason that I would have one less power supply cable to bother me, or one less battery to worry about running out. The Millenium DI-E is so cheap it's ridiculous (14€), but basic active ones still cost only around 30 bucks anyway.

So, starting from those 30€, the next thing I noticed was the Behringer V-Tone Bass BDI-21, which for only 10 bucks more (40€) gives you some nice amp modeling in addition to DI functionality.

I often hear about bassists using a compressor, and the Harley Benton Custom Line Bass DI-Expander adds that plus full equalizer. But this is already a non-trivial purchase at 89€, at which point why not going straight into a full multieffect like Zoom B1 for 99€ or even the B1X version with added expression pedal for 115€?

Of course I soon got lost browsing all sort of options at Thomann, getting totally undecided on what to buy, following link after link of also non-bass cool stuff, and at the end of the day I went to bed believing I need a gong in my life

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

If passive is ok, I would actually prefer it over active for the sole reason that I would have one less power supply cable to bother me, or one less battery to worry about running out.

Most, if not all, dedicated active DI boxes run on 48V phantom power, sent from the mixing desk. You generally don't have to worry about powering your DI in either case.

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

IMO though, for your office band room, neither of those options would be as desirable as using a preamp pedal. The reason is that plugging in directly or using a DI box would just be sending the raw bass sound to the mixer, which is more stark than what we're used to hearing from an amp. The mixer can be used for tone shaping through its EQ, but starting with a signal with more character gets you there more easily and adds some bass specific capabilities and features. One thing that a number of pedals have is amp and cabinet modeling/simulation.

I tend to agree with your opinion in general; but not everyone must sound as if they are playing through an amp. In fact, many recordings were done by plugging the bass directly, without any amp or something. Preamp on my Sadowsky + J48 has always worked great on live gigs, and I have never missed an amp/cab sim pedal. I know many other players who take the same path.

You can say that the active preamp is still a preamp and proves your point - which is true It's just a pedal-less solution excluding any amp simulation.

With passive basses though, putting a bass-specific preamp before the DI box (such as Origin DCX Bass) can be very useful - just the way you described. Our regular sound engineer once told me that he prefers this setup over the raw passive signal. But hey; I played a P bass + J48 combo on many gigs as well, and had no problems - the sound guy would maybe have to turn a few more knobs.

But this is not a science, it is an art form so whatever bass / pedal / etc combo sounds "good" according to your vibe, should be OK.

Personally; I'd rather go direct than putting my signal through a low-quality pedal though. Subjectively speaking; they tend to do more harm than good to my signal.

 

[Wasnex]

I have an active Ibanez bass and basic beginner questions on DIs.

Should I get an active or passive DI to plug into a mixer?

If I use a pedalboard or pedal-like preamp or compressor, do I still need a DI before the mixer or does the pedal usually provide a suitable signal already? Can I tell this from the fact that the pedal has or doesn't have an XLR output?

Finally, what happens if I plug into the mixer directly with a jack, and no DI? Does the sound simply suck, or is it even dangerous and can damage the bass' own electronics to plug in like that?

An active or passive DI should work fine with active bass. Usually both will work fine with a passive bass as well. An active DI may be required for a passive bass with weak pickups or if the cable run to the mixing console is really long.

Some Preamps have a built in DI. Otherwise, you generally need a DI to plug into a mixing console. The DI does two things: 1. It converts that signal from unbalanced to balanced. This helps with noise rejection. 2. It converts the impedance from High to Low.

Most 1/4" inputs on mixer channels are balanced (1/4" TRS) and line level. Basses and pedals tend to operate at instrument level, and do not provide a hot enough signal to push a line level input. Also basses and pedals produce an unbalance signal (1/4" TS). Sometimes you can plug TS connector into a balanced input and still get a signal, but not always.

Some mixing consoles have High Z instrument inputs. So if you are right next to the mixer, you can plug directly in with a guitar chord. If you are a long distance from the mixer, then a DI will ensure better sound quality and better noise rejection.

Generally whoever provides audio should provide a DI if one is needed. However, it's not a bad idea to have your own DI, just in case. You don't necessarily need to splurge on an expensive DI...but I suggest buying quality.

 

[Shenron]

Most, if not all, dedicated active DI boxes run on 48V phantom power, sent from the mixing desk. You generally don't have to worry about powering your DI in either case.

Good point, I have to keep in mind... for example the Behringer DI20 (which would be my choice of active DI because it can also accomodate 2 instruments input at once, if needed) does say it can work on either battery or phantom power.

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

because it can also accomodate 2 instruments input at once, if needed

I'm not going to label any brands as good or bad; but some DI boxes work quieter and sound subjectively "better" than others. More features don't guarantee a better buy. Simple DI boxes with high-quality components, like transformers, can outperform feature-packed options.

Price often reflects quality, but not always. Had a hyped, supposedly high-end DI box that was noise city - big bummer.

There are tons of DI box comparison videos on YouTube. Check 'em out with good headphones or calibrated monitors if you got 'em.

I concluded my journey through DI boxes with using Radial J48 most of the time and Radial JDI if I definitely need to go passive. Those can also merge two audio sources into a single mono XLR output.

 

[drpepper]

...not everyone must sound as if they are playing through an amp...

Sure, not everyone needs or wants to sound like they're playing through an amp. And if I were speaking to a situation where the primary purpose was someone being prepared with their own gear for stage or recording studio, my input would have been a bit, but not entirely, different. If the question was only between choosing an active or passive DI, I would really have any input.

Here, I know from the op's other posts that the situation at hand involves going direct in an office jam room for a company's employees that has a QSC TouchMix 30 and he's planning to use headphones, at least initially, specifically as an alternative to an amp.

For that situation, one technically correct/responsive answer to the questions as asked is that he can successfully connect to the mixer (1) directly from his bass, (2) through a "DI box", or (3) through a pedal (whether preamp or multi-fx etc. or with or without balanced output). Also, whether a DI box is active or passive is of very little importance (either will work).

Each of those options has aspects to them that differ in setup and sound that can potentially be seen as benefits or drawbacks, and that's where personal preference comes in. I think that for someone who hasn't necessarily formed more than base-level preference and is seeking information, understanding the reasons why others would choose one option over another is helpful.

The way I see a preference to use a straight DI is that it's like the preference for black coffee over coffee with cream and sugar. In a similar way, for most people, the preference develops in large part from understanding and more importantly experiencing the utility and benefits of bass > plain DI > mixer in specific circumstances, not because it's what would more commonly, subjectively found more "pleasant" sounding or would be found to have the same utility and benefits in all circumstances.

 

[erratick]

Active DI with Passive Bass, Passive DI with Active Bass- is the usual in a studio.

However with all subjective things: Whatever sounds good is fine.

It's not a hard and fast rule. You can use active DI with either. Active DI with active Bass might want a pad button or input gain control.

However Passive with Passive can be hard to get enough signal for proper recording. You can have a DI be transparent, it can colour the sounds fuzz or eq for example.

 

[drpepper]

I was first looking at DI options at Thomann, there are many inexpensive ones...

...at the end of the day I went to bed believing I need a gong in my life

I know what you mean. Options can get dizzying.

I say I'm not in the market myself, but I have Zoom B2 that's getting really long in the tooth, so I do keep an eye out for my next move, and I can't say for sure what I'd get if push came to shove right now. I can vacillate, sometimes valuing simplicity and at other times being attracted to bells and whistles.

I have some varied uses for my pedal from sometimes being nothing more than a tuner where a sound engineer has a preferred DI that they want to use to being my DI with amp and cabinet sims if I'm playing a duo or trio gig and everyone is running direct to PA. While I only use a fraction of what it's capable of, I've found the staple things that I use, with most gigs (and for IEM rehearsals) I use the Sansamp DI model to EQ so my IEM mix isn't so thin as it might be with a straight DI, and that makes it worthwhile for me.

At least starting out, you're looking to gear up for a single playing situation and the world's your oyster. One thing you might do is try to settle on what suits you best on a scale of simplicity. Would you prefer to not have this be something you have to do much messing with? A zero knobs option is as far as you can go in that direction. Would you like to have tools at your fingertips and if so, how deep into that do you want to go? With a preamp/multi-fx/amp modeling pedal, you can find a sound you like made possible by the pedal and leave the rest untapped or you can go all the way into setting up patches for different songs with different amp models and effects. That comes at a cost of the time you have to spend learning.

If I were in your position, I'd pass on the idea of plugging directly into the mixer. If I were more inclined toward keeping things simple, I'd get a DI box to have a signal with a proper level going to the mixer, but not totally cheap out on some unknown. If I were more inclined toward wanting EQ and some other features (which I personally am) even if just for the fun of it but also trying to keep the cost down, I'd round up the options that fit price-wise and and try to make the best feature comparison I could, looking to youtube and online reviews.

Edit: also if I were in your position, I would be totally geeking out on that mixer. You really have something that most people would love in a rehearsal room. All those input channels, 14 monitor channels, multi-track recording by connecting a drive, and on and on. Anyway, I noticed that 4 of the monitor outs (aux) have a pair of TRS (1/4" stereo plug) that can drive IEM/headphones, so two people don't actually need headphone amps.

 

[tb-player]

I’ve used active & passive basses with both active and passive DIs. Each setup worked just fine.

 

[Killing Floor]

Millions and millions of great songs have been recorded with bass directly patched to mixing console.

More than any other single reason, that is why there is so little sonic difference among bass amps compared to guitar amps.

The answer to that question is your bass will sound like your bass and you can color with effects and EQ like anything.

 

[grubdumpling]

I remember the days when I was scared of going ampless... then came the days when I was terrified of not having an EQ or preamp... now I plug a bass into a tuner, into whatever DI provided and smile. I have pedalboards, but going direct is like headed out on the town without the wife.

 

[Wfrance3]

If I was me, I'd do the walk before you run thing. I first became acquainted with playing direct at my Church. I was playing an Ibanez 375F at that time. They had these on the floor for all the musicians:
DB25 Matchbox | Rolls Corporation - Real Sound
It worked just fine. Played that way for over a year.
I added a polytune floor tuner because I wanted to be able to mute my bass and tune silently.
I added a little MXR M87 compressor to control the sustain to my liking and also tighten up my tone some. I added an MXR M81 DI because it had an input and an output volume. Those volume controls made sure the bass had a solid tone going to the board. I didn't use the tone controls on my M81 much, but more favored the tone controls on my bass. Am sure the church changed what came out of the PA with the tone controls on the mixing board a little, but I got final say by way of the tone controls on my Ibanez. I played with those 3 pedals for over a decade and they served me well.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Beware of cheap passive DIs; they more often then not don't handle low frequencies well. They can saturate prematurely, roll-off low end, have excessive loss that requires so much extra gain at the board that the noise can become prominent, etc. IME, an inexpensive active DI is going to perform much much better than an inexpensive passive DI.

On the other hand, a good passive DI is pretty much bomb-proof, but you'll pay for it.

 

[Bag of Lazers]

You need a DI. You do not need an active DI, especially with an active bass. Having a good simple passive DI is never a bad idea. I recommend the Radial brand. I use the StageBug SB-2, but the PROD1 is very good also.

 

[brianrost]

I prefer passive over active DIs because it’s one less thing to worry about…a passive DI is just a transformer in a box with three jacks. Not much to go wrong there

Some active DIs run off a battery but many require phantom power. Show up at a gig where the mixing board has no phantom or the phantom is busted and you’re SOL.

Preamps with DI outputs I consider a different animal than an active DI with no other functionality and I do use them now and then.

Nowadays I only own one amp that lacks a DI out. Soundpersons in general have gotten so used to just handing me an XLR cable to plug into the bass amp. They look at me funny when I tell them I use a DI box with that amp. I offer to use my own if they don't have one that they like to use.

 

[micguy]

The cheapest DI (in the long run) is probably a Radial ProDI - good enough you’ll never need to upgrade, rugged enough to last as long as you want to play.