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Double Bass Adding attack to baby bass sound

I play an ampeg baby bass. It is an antique instrument, that adds a lovely, warm bottom end to a salsa group. however my piano player says that although he loves the timbre, he needs to hear more attack from the instrument as he is having trouble discerning pitch. In terms of frequencies, what can i do to equalize to get the best of both worlds?
 
Try to cut some mids around 500hz with a narrow q.
I would second eq, If the pitch of the note isn't discernable conservative application of eq might be enough to clarify. This would be situational- different venues or setups would require adjustment of eq. But attack is a physical dynamic and eq could only emphasize, not create it.

Attack on a frettless string instrument is largely a product of design. Pickups also make a difference, where as comparable piezo and magnetic pickups- piezo will have a softer; "rounder" attack. The strings, setup and player's technique also contribute a lot, and no amount of eq can compensate for these without resulting in a drastic change in the timbre.
 
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I don't know if this will work for you, but I use a Keely Bassist with minimal compression, and it gives me nice articulation for each note. It also makes it so that I can be heard clearly with less volume. This is with EB but I'm going to try it with DB soon.
 
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I think the keyboard player is conferring he's not happy. I don't necessarily think what he is saying is an accurate description of the problem or solution.

Attack is in the higher mids. A strong attack can improve our perception of clarity but IMHO it doesn't carry a lot of information regarding pitch.

From what I have heard, a lot of recordings with Baby Basses have a pretty strong attack, but they don't typically have a super centered tone. I think this is an intrinsic quality of the instrument that sounds very cool while also being potentially problematic.

Frequency Slotting: This is the term we use when someone is managing the mix by cutting a certain frequency range on one instrument and boosting the same frequency range on another instruments.

Masking: When two sound sources produce the same frequency, you only hear the sound source that is louder. The quieter sound sourced is "masked."

I believe pitch perception for bass is largely encoded in the mids. There is a lot of competition in this frequency range, which can mask the bass's pitch. To overcome the masking, it's import to hear more of the direct sound coming from your amp in relation to the indirect sound bouncing around the room. Bass cabs tend to be somewhat directional in the mids. You could aim your cab at the keyboard player, which I don't recommend because it's important for you to hear you own instrument clearly. Alternatively, the keyboard player can take care to set up closer to the area where you amp shoots the mids. Some degree of compromise may be required, so that both of you get what you need.

The benefit of scooping out mids often relates to indirect sound. As I mentioned there is a lot of competition for space in the mids, and especially the lower mids. Low mids are less directional than higher frequencies and they tend to bounce around longer and build up into a muddy mess. The indirect sound of your bass can masks the direct sound of your bass.

One reason for cutting is to reduce how much energy is put into the room at problem frequencies. It can be beneficial to cut frequencies where there is a lot of build up, or ringing. However, if the bass cuts too many of the frequencies that carry pitch info, it's not going to resolve your problem. The ideal solution would be for other instruments to produce less energy in the range the bass needs to occupy.

Guitar, piano, drums, bari/tenor saxophones, trombones, and vocals all compete with bass for space in the low mids. As an audio tech I tend to be pretty aggressive with high pass filters on the mixing console. It can also help if the guitar and keyboard player dial back their lows a bit. The keyboard player should also be careful to avoid voicing chords too low or hammering out competing bass lines with his left hand. This seems to be surprising hard for many keyboardists :sour: .

Unfortunately many players tend to be protective of their own sound and they may be unwilling to consider that they are encroaching into or possibly hogging somebody else's sonic space. If someone is unwilling to work out a reasonable compromise, ultimately the best solution may be for them to accept reality and lower their expectations. Unfortunately that won't make them happy. So you have to consider the big picture; I.E. how much compromise can you take on before it's no longer worth it for you to play in the group. IMHO while I do think you should be a team player and try to give other players what the want, you also need to establish and maintain reasonable boundaries.

Good luck!
 
One thing you can try with your existing pickup is changing the distance between pickup and metal disc. You might be able to get more mids/highs if the distance is smaller.

Turn back your lows. They can produce a lot of mud that makes it difficult to hear the pitch, even for the player. I turn mine back a lot.
Or use a frequency controllable high pass filter (like a HPFpre) and reduce the lows there.

For better pitch perception more mids or higher mids can help. The bass can sound unpleasant for you but might not for the public and the piano player might hear you better.
Highs only deliver more precise attack for timing, but no relevant pitch information. Only dial in as much lower mids as really needed. Too much and it gets muddy too.

If your amp is not too heavy raise it up so the mids don’t get to the feet but closer to the ear. Tilting it back might be an alternative, even turning bit backwards to a hard wall might be an option to distribute the sound wider.

If it is an electric piano, the (higher) mids of the piano are often way too loud. They might need to be turned back. Even a lot of FOH people don’t realize that.
Even an acoustic one might get too much higher mids from the monitors that can hinder the pitch perception of the bass.

I once added a piezo disc under the bridge of an EBG (just for experimenting) and wired it in parallel to the active output with with no preamp. Didn’t thought it might contribute to the sound, but it did. It is still in there after several years (of hardly playing it at all).
You can try that with a greeting card piezo disc in the bridge wing (if there is one at all) or under one bridge foot (keep the soldered part beneath the foot and isolate the soldered side against any metal part, maybe use it upside down so the brass disc contacts the metal part for earthing).

When I played EUB with a salsa group, the piano player was looking inside the group from the side with me and the amp on her right side behind. But I used a Clevinger EUB with bridge feet pickups that produce a nice balanced sound with my own pickups and a relatively clean Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 with a 10” and a 12” cab with them. The 10” being a bit aggressive (good for the stage) but the 12” delivering a nice round sound.

Otherwise I second Wasnex helpful hints.
 
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When I attended a DB meeting one student was unhappy with her sound with the bow. The professor took her bass played it like her and asked the listeners if it sounded the same as her playing. Then he directed the student to listen in the public and she found it nice to listen to.

Unfortunately you need at least one more DB player for that and at least one experienced listener.

You can simulate it a bit when you play close to a wall with an acoustic instrument. But even then you get a mix of both.

With an EUB you can tilt the cab backwards to a hard wall to get more of the direct speaker sound to your ear. Experimenting with position and direction is as much as important as the EQ, strings, pickup etc.

Listen to the piano sound. If it doesn‘t sound like a real acoustic piano, something is wrong with the piano EQ. If it does, you need to change something.
Good luck with your experiments.
 
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