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Advice For My Bass Player Would Be Nice

A

Alcyon

Jan 15, 2008
737
5
Vancouver, BC
solkauffman.blogspot.com
#1
Yes, I am not one of your GAS-afflicted coven; I have snuck onto these forums from drumsmylife.com. But I am in a band, and in that band is a bassist, and I know too much about everyone else's gear, so here goes...

We just recorded a few songs in anticipation of making a demo/EP and my bassist just got a brand new Ampeg SVT-3 Pro and a 410HLF cab. Now I know this is a ridiculously awesome setup with a crazy array of settings and the potential for wicked tone, but we get problems with bass feedback cluttering up the low end and getting a good EQ sound. Can somebody suggest some EQ settings, or just let us know what you use on this head? We've got two guitarists with scooped mids and some savage distortion and it's tough for the bass to stand out at times. We were mixing down the tracks and the bass sounded... Weak, to be honest. There's a part in the chorus of one of our songs that is very similar to the chorus in Kyuss' Shine, if anyone knows that song; it's got some bass fuzz I think and the bass is very dominant in the mix, is there a way to switch to that during a song? Like a volume boost?

Also, I had a question about pedals like the Blowtorch or the EHX English Muff'n. They both use tubes as preamps for distortion, but the Ampeg itself has a tube preamp as well, is it not possible to get distortion from the head itself? It's got a Tube Gain knob, but of course there's no footswitch or anything, so changing from distorted to clean would take some quick knob twisting, and that doesn't seem to make sense. But then, neither does having two tube preamps before the power amp. Or does it?

Thanks for helping out this clueless and curious drummer.
 
#2
Alcyon said:
We've got two guitarists with scooped mids and some savage distortion and it's tough for the bass to stand out at times.
Click to expand...
Mids are a metal bassist's best friends who are too often ignored, and having a clean tone will help cut through a thick wall of overdriven guits. If he/she/it tries to compete in a Low End and/or Distortion War, they'll just get buried in the mix.

For a second I panicked that there existed a Kyuss song I didn't know about, but found a version of of it on Muchas Gracias. I've never been good at remembering song titles. :)
 
#3
I knew this, so I walked over to his Graphic EQ and gave him a pretty nice little hill... Not sure if that was exactly what to do but it sounded like a good idea at the time. Looking at the Freq Analysis in Logic Pro, his bass amp looks exactly like my kick drum, which is a recipe for mud. Hmm.

Yeah, I have it on Muchas Gracias too. I love the sound of the bass in that chorus. Anyone know what he played? I know he had a Rickenbacker but that's it. If you'd like to hear my bands' version of Shine, it's here: Link Removed We basically stole the song progression and the chord concepts.
 
#4
As the amp has a graphic eq and you can analyse frequencies in Logic. Why not also analyse the peak bass frequencies of the guitars and tweak the bass eq to fit somewhere between them all.

IMO I would eq the guitar amps and roll the bass off a bit. I realise you're going for a scooped sound but if you've got 2 guitars taking up all the low end there's no room for the bass. Take a listen to some early Metallica, the guitars have so much bottom you can hardly hear the bass. Then listen to later stuff (black album onwards), better production and the guitars are tamed and the bass comes through.

Every instrument in a mix should take up it's own frequency range. When someone else tries to share it no-one's going to win. I sometime think if guitars were called 'trebles' mixing them would be a lot easier.

Another tip, which is how I would mix recorded material, and my band uses to get our levels set. Set the bass eq completely flat then start playing with just drums and bass and get the bassist to adjust his volume first and then eq so that it sits nicely with/around the drums and isn't fighting them. Then bring in the guitars one at a time. They will have to adjust their tone too, each one slightly differently to take up a different space. Perhaps have one more trebly and one middly.

Remember, guitars are supplementary intruments, it's the drums and bass that hold it all together. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a bassist.
 
#5
Also during mixdown, you can link up a compressor on the bass with a sidechain linked to the kick drum. This will duck the bass level when the kick drum hits. You don't want to go too mad though, only a subtle effect if required to make a difference.
 
#6
dannybuoy said:
Also during mixdown, you can link up a compressor on the bass with a sidechain linked to the kick drum. This will duck the bass level when the kick drum hits. You don't want to go too mad though, only a subtle effect if required to make a difference.
Click to expand...

+10

Actually you can do this to a group of rhythm guitars as well as the bass in extreme cases, its all fighting to be heard after all! :p

Snare can be the problem with guitar more than kick. PS I never told you this, its clearly a secret that people dont talk about much.....
 
#8
Alcyon said:
We've got two guitarists with scooped mids and some savage distortion and it's tough for the bass to stand out at times. We were mixing down the tracks and the bass sounded... Weak, to be honest.
Click to expand...

While mids are important to helping the bass stand out, you may also want to consider making a few EQ adjustments to the other instruments, too. Everyone's fighting for sonic space, and sometimes taking a little away from another instrument helps the bass come through better. Mixing is always a tricky thing; heck, it's essentially an art form.

Alcyon said:
There's a part in the chorus of one of our songs that is very similar to the chorus in Kyuss' Shine, if anyone knows that song; it's got some bass fuzz I think and the bass is very dominant in the mix, is there a way to switch to that during a song? Like a volume boost?
Click to expand...

You mean, to make it instantly stand out? Yeah, a boost pedal could do the trick. There's a nice variety of clean boost pedals (as well as dirtier boost pedals and overdrive pedals) which could do the trick nicely. Of course, there's also the EQ pedal option, but I'd only use that if you intended to change the tone in that part.

But if he doesn't already have a fuzz or overdrive tone going normally, it's a different story. That'd be something your band and your bass player would need to work out... gotta remember to please the bassist, too, with whatever you pick. :D

When hunting for such a pedal, you'd ideally want something bass-specific. Doesn't have to have tubes at all (some of the best ones I've used don't). But if you want to retain low end, something built with bass in mind tends to work best.

With other types of effects, it's not really an issue... but with overdrive and the like, low end loss can be.

Alcyon said:
Also, I had a question about pedals like the Blowtorch or the EHX English Muff'n. They both use tubes as preamps for distortion, but the Ampeg itself has a tube preamp as well, is it not possible to get distortion from the head itself?
Click to expand...

The Blowtorch is tube-free; I own and love one, so trust me on that. :p

But yeah, you can overdrive the tube preamp. In the case of thew SVT3-PRO... you'll need to play with the Input "Gain" and "Tube Gain" knobs, so you can get enough input going to overdrive the tubes. A clean boost pedal or overdrive pedal can provide that sort of extra push, too, but using an overdrive pedal provides a different character to the sound - the character of that particular pedal. Could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your bassist's tastes.

Alcyon said:
It's got a Tube Gain knob, but of course there's no footswitch or anything, so changing from distorted to clean would take some quick knob twisting, and that doesn't seem to make sense. But then, neither does having two tube preamps before the power amp. Or does it?
Click to expand...

Technically, it has one preamp - the two sections run in series, but have their own controls.

Since it doesn't have a footswitch... your best bet would be a clean boost pedal (to get the tubes to ovderive), an overdrive pedal, or a fuzz pedal (if you want to go all the way with some heavy distortion). Time to push your bassist to look around and find something to his liking. :D

A note of warning with fuzz; it's the toughest to get to stand out in the mix. You might not want to distort the bass tone that much... or you may end up with more mixing issues than you already have now.
 
#10
FYI, the tube gain control on the SVT-3 Pro is actually a tube compression controller. It doesn't create tube distortion, like you might think. Instead, turning it down will give you a softer sound. I prefer the sound when it's maxed out. You can get a touch of overdrive when cranking the gain, but compared to other ampegs I've played, it really isn't that much. You could try cranking it and hitting a clean boost, but I would recommend going with a dedicated overdrive unit. Out of many units I've tried, I prefer the Fulltone Bass-Drive Mosfet and the EHX English Muff'n.

What kind of bass is your bass player playing? Is it as decent as the amp? That will make a big difference too. Also, and this is just me, I tend not to EQ on my amp too much. The natural sound of my bass seems to work pretty well. I do boost the bass a little and I use the bright switch on the SVT-3 Pro to put a little more bite in the sound I get from the 15" cabs I like to play. If you're getting feedback on the bass, especially with a clean tone, something is very wrong, possibly microphonic pickups. Better pickups might help there.
 
#11
Thanks so much guys, you're being so helpful, I really appreciate it.

I'll definitely take a look at those Logic tips. I never even considered using a sidechain, that's awesome. I'll also mess with the EQ some more.

I think we'd go for the English Muff'n or the Blowtorch if we wanted some fuzz/overdrive, but in terms of a clean boost, is there anything you'd recommend? I was thinking about an MXR Micro Amp or a BBE Boosta Grande.

The bassist has more of a bass GAS than an effect GAS... He's got a Rickenbacker 4003 (Blue Burst), a Dean Razorback ML, Yamaha RBX-170 Fretless (my favorite, it's lethal black), and a Musicman Bongo 5-string.
 

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