Advice for new mini/micro setup

[Inga51]

Hey TBers. I'm very new around here and have read several threads on similar topics with people sharing their rigs and debating the merits of this cab over that etc...but not many people seem to mention what style of music they play as a reference point for their opinions.

Here's where I'm at... I have been playing for quite a few years and mainly played at a smallish church of 100 or so in a 4-5 piece, until recently when I've been playing a lot of musicals in various sized theatres. In the musicals I play everything from slap & funk to solid rock to diso to slow ballads, so a versatile sound is a must. My current setup consists of a Warwick 5 string Active Corvette (sometimes using a Boss GT-6B for minor effects in shows), running into a Yorkville XM200 15" combo. While I get a decent tone out of this set up, it's not that great (somewhat sloppy), and more importantly the 57lb weight of the amp is putting some serious strain on my back (lugging it around several times a week for rehearsals and shows).

I had thought that the Markbass 121P (or 121H) might be a good option for me but am concerned that the 1x12" cab might not cut it volume or dynamic range wise. Weight-wise it's a great option at less than 30lbs. I played a Markbass 102P (?, 2 x 10") combo at my local music store yesterday and loved the warm yet punchy and clear sound it produced...but at 40odd lbs it's not a huge reduction in weight from my current rig but a massive $$$ investment that I'm not sure I can justify as an amateur.

The idea of a separate head and cab appeals to me but obviously comes at a premium price point.

The situation is made worse by the fact that I'm based in Perth (Western Australia) and our selection of music stores and boutique brands is very limited. It's a shame that Markbass limit their amps regionally by the voltage transformer that's built in otherwise shipping one from the US would be a very cost effective option. Still shipping a cab might be an option after buying a head here.

So I'm wondering what suggestions / advice you all might have for my situation.

Cheers

 

[lafuria]

I use a 110v marshall in south america...just use a transformer...pardon my ignorance but what voltage do you guys use "down under" ?

 

[Sten]

Lighter than 40lbs and bigger than 1x12"? I think there are very very few options.

Add some simple casters to your combo if price is the issue. OR be prepared to put out the bucks for the amp you like.

Genz-Benz amps have switchable input power, but cost even more than Markbass.

 

[ga_edwards]

I have the 121H cab and love it. It copes with volume very well. the LMII head never gets past halfway in pub gigs, with drummer and two guitartists (plus 5 vocals). I've only needed DI a few times, a large marquee, a venue bar where everything was mic'd up, and on a couple of huge stages, again, everything mic'd. Even so, the bass covered the stage nicely and still had plenty of headroom.

It is easily the most effeicient cab I've owned. It seems so much louder than my previous 250w Warwick combo, bearing in mind I'm only running the single cab at 300w, so not a massive power difference. The tone is also a lot tighter than the Warwicks 15" speaker and seems to respond faster and capable of more accurate dynamics. The single 15" as you say can sound bit sloppy (but is probably more forgiving).

I did think about the smaller 121P, but decided upon the slightly larger 121H as it is tuned slightly lower - 40Hz as opposed to 45Hz, which copes with extended range tunings much better.

I personally am happy with my lot, but if you're used to trouser flapping bass from multiple speakers you'll be in for a surprise. But even so, I think it provides more than enough volume for most occassions with great tone to boot. I'm of the school of thought you don't need huge rigs these days to provide tone and volume, but a lot of people like to feel the air and floor moving from behmoths, which modern lightweight rigs don't do. But IMO, you don't need to, to be heard.

 

[Lindsay]

...pardon my ignorance but what voltage do you guys use "down under" ?

240V. Some manufacturers make a 230V version to cover 220/240V markets. Really kind manufacturers have a 120/230V switch on the back.

 

[ga_edwards]

UK use 240v, could you get one shipped from here cheaper too?

 

[Inga51]

Lighter than 40lbs and bigger than 1x12"? I think there are very very few options.

Add some simple casters to your combo if price is the issue. OR be prepared to put out the bucks for the amp you like.

Genz-Benz amps have switchable input power, but cost even more than Markbass.

Yeah, I thought I might have been dreaming that such a beast existed but thought I'd ask for input from the experts.

Casters on my combo is an option I guess.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Inga51]

I have the 121H cab and love it. It copes with volume very well. the LMII head never gets past halfway in pub gigs, with drummer and two guitartists (plus 5 vocals). I've only needed DI a few times, a large marquee, a venue bar where everything was mic'd up, and on a couple of huge stages, again, everything mic'd. Even so, the bass covered the stage nicely and still had plenty of headroom.

It is easily the most effeicient cab I've owned. It seems so much louder than my previous 250w Warwick combo, bearing in mind I'm only running the single cab at 300w, so not a massive power difference. The tone is also a lot tighter than the Warwicks 15" speaker and seems to respond faster and capable of more accurate dynamics. The single 15" as you say can sound bit sloppy (but is probably more forgiving).

I did think about the smaller 121P, but decided upon the slightly larger 121H as it is tuned slightly lower - 40Hz as opposed to 45Hz, which copes with extended range tunings much better.

I personally am happy with my lot, but if you're used to trouser flapping bass from multiple speakers you'll be in for a surprise. But even so, I think it provides more than enough volume for most occassions with great tone to boot. I'm of the school of thought you don't need huge rigs these days to provide tone and volume, but a lot of people like to feel the air and floor moving from behmoths, which modern lightweight rigs don't do. But IMO, you don't need to, to be heard.

Thank you so much for your detailed input on this topic. From what I read on the Marbass.it website the 121H is only rated to 45Hz as well, but it does range to 20kHz as opposed to the 18kHz of the 121P. There is a fair bit of extra weight in the 121H but it's still under 40lbs.

No need for trouser flapping, I never play that loud now with what I've got so that shouldn't be a problem. I just need it to provide a good tight but warm all-round sound.

Thanks for the suggestion of looking in the UK too...hadn't thought about that. Would just need to get the plug converted.

I don't think people realise just how much we pay for this sort of equipment here down under. For example, the shop price (before any discount, but less than retail) for a Little Mark II head here in Perth is AUD$1695, which based on today's exchange rate is just under US$1400!!! Considering they are selling second hand on the classifieds here for US$425...you can see what we're dealing with. I could buy two brand new and have them shipped from the US for the price we are expected to pay here!

Well thanks again folks for you input. I was hoping to hear more about the 1x12 range of combos and how people thought they might fit with my playing requirements. So if anyone has experience in this area I would be greatly appreciative.

 

[ga_edwards]

Thank you so much for your detailed input on this topic. From what I read on the Marbass.it website the 121H is only rated to 45Hz as well, but it does range to 20kHz as opposed to the 18kHz of the 121P. There is a fair bit of extra weight in the 121H but it's still under 40lbs.

No worries, glad to help.

The 121H is def tuned down to 40Hz. The combo version however only goes down to 45Hz. Partly why I went separates instead of combo.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Good luck with your search

 

[MrBEAR]

Quick question for the O.P.

Would you have F.O.H. support available and what is the onstage volume level like for the other players since you did note a preference for not requiring "trouser flapping" bass levels these days? Just asking as like all good gigs, things do change.

Cheers,

Mr. BEAR

 

[Inga51]

No worries, glad to help.

The 121H is def tuned down to 40Hz. The combo version however only goes down to 45Hz. Partly why I went separates instead of combo.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Good luck with your search

Yeah, I realised after I had posted that and done some more reading on the website that the combo was the difference.

My budget (based on local pricing) will not support a separate head and cab setup in MB equipment. I will need to go with a combo and consider long term potentially adding an extension cab like the 121H to form a mini-rig.

 

[Inga51]

Quick question for the O.P.

Would you have F.O.H. support available and what is the onstage volume level like for the other players since you did note a preference for not requiring "trouser flapping" bass levels these days? Just asking as like all good gigs, things do change.

Cheers,

Mr. BEAR

At church the current (and the new) combo will be running into the desk and through a reasonable FOH system, so on stage can be used purely for monitoring purposes. Theatre venues are varied. Some offer FOH support and some don't. But here in Perth the amateur venues are generally less than 200 seats and reasonably accoustic. My current 200W 1x15combo has never been used run above 3-3.5/10 in any venue I've played it without FOH support...so I'm hoping that the CMD 121P or H will be able to handle that considering its 300W running just the combo, and is a great improvement in tone, clarity and general punchiness.

I had the chance to play with one in the shop yesterday and was very impressed at the sound it produces from such a small and light setup.

 

[slaerts]

I'm going through a similar issue. I decided to buy a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 from the classifieds here. The shuttle has a simple switch to flick to convert it to 240 volts. I am now considering my options for a light cab/cabs. I'm looking at the schroeder single 10's or 12's or single epifani 10's to run with it. I'm also looking at markbass traveler 2x10 or the NY 604 but they are very expensive.

By looking at what you are using and needing have you considered something like a shuttle 3.0 and having 2 8ohm 10's, or 1 4ohm 2x10?

I know the pain of buying localy, thats why I choose to buy second hand in the states.

 

[Inga51]

Thanks for the input slaerts...i just typed a lengthy response and the stupid thing got nuked when I hit submit.

Hadn't considered the GB heads as I only just started researching this stuff in the last couple of days after straining my back once again. It's hard to know what will and won't cut it when you can only hear it in the store, and because we have so few of the boutique brands in our stores listening to the options suggested on here is not possible. I will however try to look at the Shuttle plus 1x12 option.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[Inga51]

Well I just got off the phone from my regular music store and they have spoke to the supplier and been advised the new stock is a least 6 weeks away and the retail price is likely to just from AUD$2395 to AUD$2995 for the CMD121P which is freakin' ridiculous in today's economic climate. What a joke! Looks like this whole project is getting less likely by the minute. Think I might go to Bunnings (Home Depot for the US folk) and buy some casters.

 

[slaerts]

There are other options. Send me a PM or email.

 

[slaerts]

Inga51: I got your PM and sent you an email then thought of something else and sent you another one and the second one was rejected by your spam filter... you might want to look for it if you can or PM or email me for the second message it might be useful.

 

[Absentia]

I have the same bass as you, trust me the CMD 102p is well worth the investment but if you're going to spend the big bucks get a mini head and separate cab. The horn in the 102p is kinda iffy.
It'll only cost you 100$ (depending) on a lmII and 2x10 front ported cab.
and warning the low B can get a little muddy at really high volumes.

 

[Inga51]

Inga51: I got your PM and sent you an email then thought of something else and sent you another one and the second one was rejected by your spam filter... you might want to look for it if you can or PM or email me for the second message it might be useful.

Thanks slaerts, I got the first one. Have added you to safe senders list now, so you could try again or just PM me here if that doesn't work. Some very good suggestions that I was actually already looking into since the last posts here.

And Absentia, thanks for pitching in. The weight and size of the 102P was the main thing putting me off that unit. I know it's only ~20kgs but the physical dimensions of the box are pretty big and I'm not sold on the monitor/wedge shape.

It looks at this stage that I'll save up some money and go down the path of a separate head and cab.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Inga51]

Okay folks, this subject has come back up for review and I've been doing a lot of reading here on TB and am a little confused....

I've been saving my $$$ and am looking at purchasing a separate head and cab rig that needs to be ultra light for small venue and theatre work. For more details on what it will be used for please read my earlier posts.

I'm pretty much settled on the LMIII head as I love the sound and overall feel I get from this product. I did have a look at the GK micro heads and didn't like it at all, and think I prefer the LMIII over the GB Shuttle 6.0. So the questions I have realted to cabs...

I think that a good quality 112 cab will be sufficient for my needs and will be lighter than a 210 cab in most cases, although I'm not ruling the 210 option out if it can be had for a good price and the right weight. I think the cab will almost certainly need to have NEO speakers. Being based in Perth I do not have access to play any of the cabs that I am interested in unfortunately, so this purchase will be a bit more difficult.

I hear a lot of good things about the Bergantino 112 cabs but don't know much about the difference between the AE models and ER or HT models. The AE's are significantly lighter and the others are really pushing the limits of what I'm willing to carry. The Epifani 112s seem to get good reviews on here, as do the Avatars (which I'm not sure I can get in Australia that easily).

So, I'm all ears on suggestions and what people feel will be the best cab for my purpose.

Thanks,

Chris