Advice on custom Rickenbacker bolt on style build

[selmerzodiac]

I fully understand that the sound of a rick has a lot to do with the wood and design, however, my mid 70's 4001 sits in its case much more than I would like even though it has my favorite sound. I have just never felt comfy playing it no matter how hard I try.

The bass that FEELS the best to me is my Les Paul signature bass. That is the bass I use 90% of the time. To me it feels much better than the reissue Epiphone JC version which has a fatter neck profile. For fenders I prefer the feel of a Jazz bass over a P, and that is my 2nd favorite bass to play for feel... but I am always longing for something closer to that rick tone and 2 pickups closer to the neck are definitely a big part of why I like that sound.

My idea is to build (or have built) a jazz bass style body and neck (with possibly a dream bass situation of a neck profile closer to my Les Paul Signature bass). I am planning on using 2 classic electronics rick style pickups where they would go on a rick under the harmonics. Im working with Brad at Classic amplification right now on the pickups, and it looks like we are going with a 4004 mounting design with his 70's style high gain repros.

A few questions for you guys.
1) Is there any reason why I should be looking at something else instead of these pickups? Realize that I love the classic rick tone and this will most likely going to be a bolt on 34 inch scale bass with jazz bass string spacing. Will the rick string spacing being different effect this (Brad seems to think it will be fine). Is the 6 polepiece toaster a better plan just in case?

2) any advice on these early stages where I am planning things out is very much welcomed. I know that there is a ton that I dont know so im all ears to any advice.

3) any advice on who would be good to build this bass?

I have been thinking about doing it myself with fender style parts and a premade neck. I have access to a really nice woodshop for routing and the owner (a family member) would help. I am fairly handy and have actually built a neck through bass from scratch for a class in college (except for the fretwork). It turned out good enough that someone bought it from me for a surprising amount of money. (PS, what idiot builds a bass for himself but sells it... I was an idiot!).

Still, I cant help but think it might be a good idea to find an experienced luthier for this since I only want to do this once and it is going to be my dream bass after 30 years of owning way too many wonderful instruments. I live in MA if there is someone local to look at and try to get close to copying my Gibson neck profile that would put this into the ultimate dream bass category, and something I know I wouldn't be able to pull off myself.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The guy from Classic surely knows his business, but I think (without proof) that the Ric spacings have a good bit to do with the tone, along with the maple through neck construction. You can get a good Ric emulation with a lot of basses, but it’s never 100% to my ears. Geddy got a lot of his “Classic Ric Tone” on a Jazz, so go figure. As an addicted amateur builder myself, I’d say go for home-brew, then you’ll Own it in a way that isn’t possible otherwise. If you built a neck through, a bolt on won’t be any harder.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I fully understand that the sound of a rick has a lot to do with the wood and design, however, my mid 70's 4001 sits in its case much more than I would like even though it has my favorite sound. I have just never felt comfy playing it no matter how hard I try.

The bass that FEELS the best to me is my Les Paul signature bass. That is the bass I use 90% of the time. To me it feels much better than the reissue Epiphone JC version which has a fatter neck profile. For fenders I prefer the feel of a Jazz bass over a P, and that is my 2nd favorite bass to play for feel... but I am always longing for something closer to that rick tone and 2 pickups closer to the neck are definitely a big part of why I like that sound.

My idea is to build (or have built) a jazz bass style body and neck (with possibly a dream bass situation of a neck profile closer to my Les Paul Signature bass). I am planning on using 2 classic electronics rick style pickups where they would go on a rick under the harmonics. Im working with Brad at Classic amplification right now on the pickups, and it looks like we are going with a 4004 mounting design with his 70's style high gain repros.

A few questions for you guys.
1) Is there any reason why I should be looking at something else instead of these pickups? Realize that I love the classic rick tone and this will most likely going to be a bolt on 34 inch scale bass with jazz bass string spacing. Will the rick string spacing being different effect this (Brad seems to think it will be fine). Is the 6 polepiece toaster a better plan just in case?

2) any advice on these early stages where I am planning things out is very much welcomed. I know that there is a ton that I dont know so im all ears to any advice.

3) any advice on who would be good to build this bass?

I have been thinking about doing it myself with fender style parts and a premade neck. I have access to a really nice woodshop for routing and the owner (a family member) would help. I am fairly handy and have actually built a neck through bass from scratch for a class in college (except for the fretwork). It turned out good enough that someone bought it from me for a surprising amount of money. (PS, what idiot builds a bass for himself but sells it... I was an idiot!).

Still, I cant help but think it might be a good idea to find an experienced luthier for this since I only want to do this once and it is going to be my dream bass after 30 years of owning way too many wonderful instruments. I live in MA if there is someone local to look at and try to get close to copying my Gibson neck profile that would put this into the ultimate dream bass category, and something I know I wouldn't be able to pull off myself.

My first question would be: What's "wrong" with your 4001? What about it makes it uncomfortable to play? Is it the width and shape of the neck? The shape of the body? Weight and balance? What bothers you about it?

Maybe you would be better off finding another Rickenbacker and having it modified a bit to suit your taste? It's not that big a deal to narrow or reshape a neck, or trim an edge on the body. That would be simpler and less expensive than having a custom bass built. Or, do the mods yourself.

Building a custom bass that sounds like your Rick, looks like your Les Paul, and has the frame of a Jazz will be a tough problem. The long road around the mountain.

The sound of a Rickenbacker comes from three things: The unique design and construction of the pickups, the placement of the pickups along the strings, and the unusual construction of the wood frame. A 4001's structure is a lot different from a Jazz or a Les Paul. If you put Rick pickups and placement on a Jazz frame, you won't get all the way there to the Rick sound. The frame of your custom bass would need to be built in construction similar to....a Rickenbacker frame.

Your custom bass would need to be.....a copy of a Rickenbacker, with a few changes to make it comfortable for you to play.

So my question again is: Why not just buy a real Rickenbacker and make a few changes to it?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Rics have had there issues over the years, but the latest crop of "S" models, particularly the walnut "SW" models with the new V2 bridge, have solved most of the long-standing gripes, maybe most of yours too:

1. Ergonomics - no body or neck binding on the S
2. Painful intonation process - solved by the V2, though they kept the mute, so palm muting still difficult.
3. Oil finish - doesn't flake and bubble like the painted finish, and easily repaired by adding more oil.
4. Mono output -because only a small minority actually use Ric-O'-Sound.
5. Slightly lighter - the walnut wings are lighter than maple, but retains the "frame" of a rock maple neck-through beam Bruce mentions.

It sounds like you WANT to build this bass anyway, reason enough in my book, but do it for the fun and satisfaction of building a bass, not chasing the elusive Ric tone.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I fully understand that the sound of a rick has a lot to do with the wood and design, however, my mid 70's 4001 sits in its case much more than I would like even though it has my favorite sound. I have just never felt comfy playing it no matter how hard I try.

The bass that FEELS the best to me is my Les Paul signature bass. That is the bass I use 90% of the time. To me it feels much better than the reissue Epiphone JC version which has a fatter neck profile. For fenders I prefer the feel of a Jazz bass over a P, and that is my 2nd favorite bass to play for feel... but I am always longing for something closer to that rick tone and 2 pickups closer to the neck are definitely a big part of why I like that sound.

My idea is to build (or have built) a jazz bass style body and neck (with possibly a dream bass situation of a neck profile closer to my Les Paul Signature bass). I am planning on using 2 classic electronics rick style pickups where they would go on a rick under the harmonics. Im working with Brad at Classic amplification right now on the pickups, and it looks like we are going with a 4004 mounting design with his 70's style high gain repros.

A few questions for you guys.
1) Is there any reason why I should be looking at something else instead of these pickups? Realize that I love the classic rick tone and this will most likely going to be a bolt on 34 inch scale bass with jazz bass string spacing. Will the rick string spacing being different effect this (Brad seems to think it will be fine). Is the 6 polepiece toaster a better plan just in case?

2) any advice on these early stages where I am planning things out is very much welcomed. I know that there is a ton that I dont know so im all ears to any advice.

3) any advice on who would be good to build this bass?

I have been thinking about doing it myself with fender style parts and a premade neck. I have access to a really nice woodshop for routing and the owner (a family member) would help. I am fairly handy and have actually built a neck through bass from scratch for a class in college (except for the fretwork). It turned out good enough that someone bought it from me for a surprising amount of money. (PS, what idiot builds a bass for himself but sells it... I was an idiot!).

Still, I cant help but think it might be a good idea to find an experienced luthier for this since I only want to do this once and it is going to be my dream bass after 30 years of owning way too many wonderful instruments. I live in MA if there is someone local to look at and try to get close to copying my Gibson neck profile that would put this into the ultimate dream bass category, and something I know I wouldn't be able to pull off myself.

Like Gilmourisgod says above, if you really want to build a custom bass that is a mixture of Rickenbacker, Gibson and Fender bass features, there's nothing wrong with that. Go for it! Many others have done that with custom basses. The result is not a replica of any of the three, but a mix. It could be your dream bass, or not.

My point in my post above is that, if you want it to really sound like your 4001, it's going to need to be built in a close form and construction to a 4001.

 

[RichterScale]

I would build a hard maple neck-thru neck blank at 33.25" scale, use authentic Ric pickups and controls, Ric string spacing, mount the pickups in the Ric locations and then just shape the neck profile and body wings to what feels comfortable.
I would also do a single DA truss rod and add a volute.

 

[GMC]

I would build a hard maple neck-thru neck blank at 33.25" scale, use authentic Ric pickups and controls, Ric string spacing, mount the pickups in the Ric locations and then just shape the neck profile and body wings to what feels comfortable.
I would also do a single DA truss rod and add a volute.

Certainly the single DA truss rod and volute! However, scale length is fairly optional. Ric have employed their weird 33 1/4” a lot. However, the 4005 seems to come in a few different scale lengths. The latest 4005XC seems to use a 30.5” scale length. I’m planning a Ric inspired build next, so I’m gathering information too. I’ll probably use Kent Armstrong PU’s as they are way cheaper and readily available in the UK. Genuine Ric hardware is insanely expensive this side of the pond.

 

[mikewalker]

My favorite RIC of all time was my 1978 Model 3000 : Bolt-neck, heavy, one pickup, short-scale! The thing was simultaneously deep and twangy - really really miss that bass!

 

[selmerzodiac]

Thanks so much for all the replies! Im sold on 34 as my favorite player is a 34.5 and I have a few great sounding short scale bases in the sable (kay, Hofner, laruel, hagstrom). I am going to check out the new ricks for sure, I appreciate that advice. It would be great to find an actual rick that feels great in my hands, but I think I have already sealed the deal with this build by sending brad money for the pickups. Its not too late to as for tweaks to those, however.

I want to make sure I understand some of this advice... is there a feeling that rick nut/bridge spacing would work better (or sound better) with these rick spaced pickups than they would with jazz bass nut/bridge spacing as far as width goes?

 

[Freekmagnet]

3) any advice on who would be good to build this bass?

I have been thinking about doing it myself with fender style parts and a premade neck. I have access to a really nice woodshop for routing and the owner (a family member) would help. I am fairly handy and have actually built a neck through bass from scratch for a class in college (except for the fretwork). It turned out good enough that someone bought it from me for a surprising amount of money. (PS, what idiot builds a bass for himself but sells it... I was an idiot!).

Still, I cant help but think it might be a good idea to find an experienced luthier for this since I only want to do this once and it is going to be my dream bass after 30 years of owning way too many wonderful instruments. I live in MA if there is someone local to look at and try to get close to copying my Gibson neck profile that would put this into the ultimate dream bass category, and something I know I wouldn't be able to pull off myself.

The only advice I can give is that “the ultimate dream bass” is an elusive and constantly moving target. If you pay a guy to build a full custom one-off for you, it may or may not end up being exactly what you expect when you actually get it in your hands. If you build it yourself, I’d plan on building 3-4 basses before you get it “right.” However, by that time your idea of “the ultimate dream bass” will have most likely changed considerably.

For me, the latter option would probably be the least disappointing.

 

[BlueTalon]

Genuine Ric hardware is insanely expensive this side of the pond.

Ric genuinely used Schaller bridges on some of their basses. If you aren't going for the Rickenbacker look, you can use a Schaller and still be genuine.

 

[Gizmot]

I have a ‘79 4001 that I love. I did 3 mods that made it a better bass. I put in the 4003-style switchable high-pass; I put in a Nordstrand Audio Nordenbocker neck pickup that sounds very much like a real Ric pickup that is reverse wound to minimize noise; I installed a Hipshot bridge that is a big improvement over the stock unit.

 

[prowla]

The guy from Classic surely knows his business, but I think (without proof) that the Ric spacings have a good bit to do with the tone, along with the maple through neck construction. You can get a good Ric emulation with a lot of basses, but it’s never 100% to my ears. Geddy got a lot of his “Classic Ric Tone” on a Jazz, so go figure. As an addicted amateur builder myself, I’d say go for home-brew, then you’ll Own it in a way that isn’t possible otherwise. If you built a neck through, a bolt on won’t be any harder.

The thing is that you can get the growly tone at the lower frets, but you need the neck pickup to thicken the sound as you move up the neck.

Ric genuinely used Schaller bridges on some of their basses. If you aren't going for the Rickenbacker look, you can use a Schaller and still be genuine.

The 4004 the OP mentioned has a Schaller 3D. One mod was to put a Badass on the Ric, though I did it on one and was never quite happy with it.
I'm not sure a Ric bridge/tailpiece assembly would fit on a Jazz.

 

[prowla]

One or two other thoughts:

• You could look at Billy Sheehan's basses - they're Fenderish with a neck pickup.
• Beware that Ric string spacing is narrower than Fenders and the neck doesn't taper so much; you wouldn't want to make the thing and then find the pole pieces don't sit under the strings.
• Retrovibe make some Ric-a-like pickups .
• Ric pickups are single-coil and are susceptible to picking up noise.
• The wiring schematics are available on the RIC website.

 

[Ric5]

I fully understand that the sound of a rick has a lot to do with the wood and design, however, my mid 70's 4001 sits in its case much more than I would like even though it has my favorite sound. I have just never felt comfy playing it no matter how hard I try.

The bass that FEELS the best to me is my Les Paul signature bass. That is the bass I use 90% of the time. To me it feels much better than the reissue Epiphone JC version which has a fatter neck profile. For fenders I prefer the feel of a Jazz bass over a P, and that is my 2nd favorite bass to play for feel... but I am always longing for something closer to that rick tone and 2 pickups closer to the neck are definitely a big part of why I like that sound.

My idea is to build (or have built) a jazz bass style body and neck (with possibly a dream bass situation of a neck profile closer to my Les Paul Signature bass). I am planning on using 2 classic electronics rick style pickups where they would go on a rick under the harmonics. Im working with Brad at Classic amplification right now on the pickups, and it looks like we are going with a 4004 mounting design with his 70's style high gain repros.

A few questions for you guys.
1) Is there any reason why I should be looking at something else instead of these pickups? Realize that I love the classic rick tone and this will most likely going to be a bolt on 34 inch scale bass with jazz bass string spacing. Will the rick string spacing being different effect this (Brad seems to think it will be fine). Is the 6 polepiece toaster a better plan just in case?

2) any advice on these early stages where I am planning things out is very much welcomed. I know that there is a ton that I dont know so im all ears to any advice.

3) any advice on who would be good to build this bass?

I have been thinking about doing it myself with fender style parts and a premade neck. I have access to a really nice woodshop for routing and the owner (a family member) would help. I am fairly handy and have actually built a neck through bass from scratch for a class in college (except for the fretwork). It turned out good enough that someone bought it from me for a surprising amount of money. (PS, what idiot builds a bass for himself but sells it... I was an idiot!).

Still, I cant help but think it might be a good idea to find an experienced luthier for this since I only want to do this once and it is going to be my dream bass after 30 years of owning way too many wonderful instruments. I live in MA if there is someone local to look at and try to get close to copying my Gibson neck profile that would put this into the ultimate dream bass category, and something I know I wouldn't be able to pull off myself.

try Jerry Sentell pickups

 

[ctmullins]

To answer your specific question, no, the string spacing won’t affect the tone. You’ll like the CA pickups, and if he makes them with a Fenderish string spacing, they will work great! But Rick-style pickups are also taller than Fender-style, so you’ll either need to adjust the string plane over the body (which may also require a taller bridge), or recess the pickups a bit.

So you can have the 34” scale, you can have the narrower nut and wider bridge, and you can have your bolt-on construction.

 

[selmerzodiac]

Thank you for the advice here, im thinking sinking the pickups into the body a bit wont be too hard to pull off. I will ask Brad again if its possible to make the pickups with fender spacing.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I just bought one these Schaller roller bridges for my Lemmy Build, very nice piece of kit. The rollers ride on threaded screws, so you can adjust string spacing, and it comes with a fitted chromed shim plate if you need the extra height above body. That might negate the need to recess the pickups. I assume it will work with Jazz spacing too.
https://www.amazon.com/Schaller-Bass-Bridge-Chrome-string/dp/B00BJR6ICC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=P4J5G94LLW13&keywords=schaller+roller+bass+bridge&qid=1664548110&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjY0IiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ==&sprefix=scahller+roll,aps,79&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

 

[selmerzodiac]

ok, this is really helpful!

 

[Wangus67]

I’m pretty sure Lammchop93 built his own Rickenbacker-style bass from scratch. Maybe check out that thread if you can find it.
I’m too lazy to do it right now. Sorry…