Advice on home studio please.

[DonaldR]

For $500, maybe a Zoom Livetrack L-12. Can record 12 tracks + Mains on usb drive or computer, and serve as a live mixer.

 

[silky smoove]

A better way to isolate sound and record would be to use headphones instead of monitoring through your PA via the monitor mix capabilities of your chosen interface. You may need a few headphone splitter cables so that each band member can listen on a set of cans.

If you were to monitor live on the PA as you were recording, you would be introducing sound bleed, and potential phasing and feedback issues through any open mics.

Your sound quality would be greatly improved, and mixing down will be infinitely easier if you avoid the PA.

This is how I'd proceed as well. Use headphones while tracking for better isolation (i.e. lack of spill from the PA), and then use the PA when rehearsing. This also gives you more interface options to consider.

 

[BAG]

We do this with a Tascam US200 and SoundCraft U12. Any audio interface with enough ins and outs should work just fine. The tascam has enough mic channels that I can put five mics on the drums in addition to the vocal mics. We use Reaper as our DAW and have been getting some very nice recordings at rehearsal (I’m listening to one right now). We’re actually surprised at the quality of the recordings and have decided to record our demo ourselves. The Scarlett 18i20 looks like it had 8 mic inputs, that’s pretty good at that price point. If that’s enough mics the Scarlet should work very well.

Good to hear that the concept works. I use Reaper too and the setup was surprisingly easy.

For the same price as the Scarlett, this would price much more useful for you.

Soundcraft Ui16 Remote-controlled Digital Mixer

More inputs, more outs, easy to use effects. Mix from the computer or iPad's.

The Ui16 only records stereo main outs the same as the Ui12. It's decent for recording rehearsals but there is no way to adjust individual levels after the fact.

I don't think the Ui16 works as a DAW interface. Great mixer, but not for multitrack recording.

Correct!

Check out the ui24r. Under $1000, 20 channels with mic pre, 8 auxes, and they added multitrack recording to USB Flash drive.

Ugh and then i finish reading and see your budget doesnt go past $500. Could you sell the ui12?

Yep, the Ui24 goes for over $2000 in NZ

A better way to isolate sound and record would be to use headphones instead of monitoring through your PA via the monitor mix capabilities of your chosen interface. You may need a few headphone splitter cables so that each band member can listen on a set of cans.

If you were to monitor live on the PA as you were recording, you would be introducing sound bleed, and potential phasing and feedback issues through any open mics.

Your sound quality would be greatly improved, and mixing down will be infinitely easier if you avoid the PA.

This is how I'd proceed as well. Use headphones while tracking for better isolation (i.e. lack of spill from the PA), and then use the PA when rehearsing. This also gives you more interface options to consider.

That is the plan for when I want to record properly but I also wanted to be able to capture rehearsals without having to use headphones.

 

[BAG]

So, I got the Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen yesterday for $850 (down from $999) which is a pretty good price here.
Setup was very, very easy and using the Scarlett outputs to the mixer works but does introduce a bit of noise which I should be able to deal with using a gate.
I've got some new headphones on order and another large diaphragm condenser mic on order so i'll be going down the rabbit hole of recording now.

 

[joebingo]

Hi All,

I've got a decent little home rehearsal studio and want to be able to record rehearsals a bit better.
Generally we just have the small PA using a Soundcraft Ui12 for vocals, cajon (two channels for his EC 10-m processor) and acoustic guitars. In the past i'd just record rehearsals using the Ui12 but it doesn't have multi-track ability.... it only records the master output.

I'm looking at upgrading my old M-Audio 4ch interface to something like the Focusrite Scarlett 18120 with 8 XLR inputs.

What would be the best way to have signal going to the interface as well as the PA?
Is it possible to have everything go in to the interface and then use its' outputs to the PA? Would this create some latency?
Would I be better using splitter cables or would this create noise or a drop in signal quality?
Could I simply use the interface as a mixer and forget about the Ui12?

I realise this isn't the best way to record as such but I just want to be able to capture rehearsals with the ability to adjust levels after the fact.

My budget won't stretch past the cost of the Focusrite.

The way I'd do it with the setup you describe is to first go into the focusrite with your XLRs, do the mix in your DAW, then send the line out to the PA. I think the focusrite does passthru monitoring as well, so if you want to bypass the DAW audio to reduce latency then you can do that too but you won't have the mix you created in software. Not a huge deal as you can just mix on the input gain knobs.

Or get a mixer with XLR outs on each of the channel strips then patch those into the interface, but that obviously adds a fair amount of cost to the whole thing.

 

[BAG]

I did a little testing with the drummer the other night and the concept works well.
The Focusrite does indeed do pass-through monitoring with zero latency and is very easy to use.
As has been mentioned there is the possibility of some phase cancellation due to sound from the PA to the mics however this shouldn't affect the clip-on condenser mic on the cajon much if at all and in the event that we mic up a guitar amp it should also be minimal due to close mic-ing. The vocals may suffer but if the rest works we can always dispose of the vocal track and then re-do vocals separately with headphones to monitor.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

 

[DanGroove]

I just noticed you are micing a Cajon and wanted to share with you my experience recording Cajons. I've used various kick mics, condenser mics, dynamic mics, mic'ed the hole, mic'ed the front, mic'ed both. The hands down best sound I have ever had from a Cajon was from a Shure Beta 91a boundary mic placed inside the cajon facing the front. It captures the thump and the crack really well with just the right amount of everything in my experience. It was the best solution for me for both live and studio purposes.

 

[BAG]

I just noticed you are micing a Cajon and wanted to share with you my experience recording Cajons. I've used various kick mics, condenser mics, dynamic mics, mic'ed the hole, mic'ed the front, mic'ed both. The hands down best sound I have ever had from a Cajon was from a Shure Beta 91a boundary mic placed inside the cajon facing the front. It captures the thump and the crack really well with just the right amount of everything in my experience. It was the best solution for me for both live and studio purposes.

That's the mic we used in our Woodskin Cajon which is a cajon with two internal beaters for the kick and snare operated by heel actuated pedals.
When we're feeling lazy (which is most small gigs) we just use the 91a inside, scoop the parametric EQ on the desk and it sounds great. When we want the best sound possible we use the 91a inside the cajon with most of the top rolled off (there's no beater top end anyway as the internal beater is a large soft thing) and then we have an sm57 outside pointed near the top corner of the face, roll off the bottom end and add some reverb. In this scenario there's no problem with the mic on the front being in the way as it is all played with the foot pedals and no hands. It can be really close to sounding like a proper kick and snare.

The current percussionist in this project has a standard cajon with a Meinl direct drive external foot pedal which is much more reactive than the Woodskin pedals, particularly so when being used by a drummer like ours. He also has a Roland EC-10m effects processor which is a pretty cool piece of kit. It has a condensor mic that clips on the back sound hole and gives a semi-decent natural sound. It also has electronic processing where it can sense the different tones (bottom end and high end) and also appears to sense note velocity and you select one of 16 different "kits". You can have a simple kick with a tambourine (which sounds great and is my favorite) or dub-style electronic sounds, cowbell and more.

If we do happen to do any decent recording i'll surely use the 91a inside and either the 57 or a large diaphragm condensor outside for the best possible sound but the little clip-on condenser is actually quite good for most uses.

Edit: It was interesting to see the latency of the electronic track compared to the condenser mic when we did a bit of recording testing the other night. There is a definite, albeit minor, delay between the mic and the electronic signal...... easily fixed in the DAW.