for example, i realy hate this type of color/finish on the neck ahaha.
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Aging of the varnish
- Thread starter Maleco
- Start date
for example, i realy hate this type of color/finish on the neck ahaha.
Most people’s Basses don’t get played hard enough or outside often enough to look like that. Just like the sunbather, the way you treat it affects how quickly it becomes darkened. Do you play outside in a seaside bar with a cigarette in the headstock? Or inside in an air conditioned church? Or the bass never leaves the house?
Theoretically keeping the bass in the case will keep it light for longest.
just for kicks here is an example of maple furniture where the wood has darkened in the old piece, compared with a freshly-made piece.
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Obviously, I do a few concerts in bars, rarely outdoors, but 95% of the time, the bass stays at home, on a stand, in the light but not directly with the sun beating down on it.
For example on the photo you give, it's perfect in my opinion!
For example on the photo you give, it's perfect in my opinion!
I don't have a picture that shows the color well, but I've got a 1995 MIM PBass I bought new. The maple neck and headstock has aged and darkened a bit with a pleasant slight honeying, but after 25 years it definitely doesn't read as "yellowed".
Modern finishes age so much slower than old finishes it seems. In 2000 I stated stopping in regularly at CME and I remember seeing allot of late 70's polyurethane finished Fenders that we're already full on butterscotch.
Modern finishes age so much slower than old finishes it seems. In 2000 I stated stopping in regularly at CME and I remember seeing allot of late 70's polyurethane finished Fenders that we're already full on butterscotch.
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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Varnish is a great durable clear. One of the strongest. Although, it turns yellow with age. Far more so with UV
BurningSkies
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- Feb 20, 2005
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The neck on my 1993 Fender American Standard...now 27 years old:
The finish on the 73P I used to have at 40 years:
The finish on the 73P I used to have at 40 years:
Oh ! thats not realy "yellow" thats true ! its seems good for me ! And the body is in PU too ?
For exemple theses bass are finish with PU (body and neck) or nitro ? :
‘82-‘85 Vintage Fender Precision Bass (P Bass) *Made in USA *Orig Hard Case | MX Trading | Reverb
1979/82 Fender Precision Bass | The Guitar Broker
Fender Precision Bass 1975 body/82 neck modded P/J pickups | Alex's Gear Outlet | Reverb
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cause their body seems very clean regarding the age of the bass, and the necks seems very clear ! The first one is very interesting cause it has many similarities with my actual PB MIM Player buttercream bass =)
For exemple theses bass are finish with PU (body and neck) or nitro ? :
‘82-‘85 Vintage Fender Precision Bass (P Bass) *Made in USA *Orig Hard Case | MX Trading | Reverb
1979/82 Fender Precision Bass | The Guitar Broker
Fender Precision Bass 1975 body/82 neck modded P/J pickups | Alex's Gear Outlet | Reverb
Invalid Link Removed
cause their body seems very clean regarding the age of the bass, and the necks seems very clear ! The first one is very interesting cause it has many similarities with my actual PB MIM Player buttercream bass =)
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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The poly finishes are harder than nitro, so they'll age but it takes way more work to get them there...so start playing.
That Mocha precision is a great example of two different finishes. If you look at the headstock face, it's slightly darker. That's a nitro finish on just the face of the headstock, the finish you're seeing on the fretboard is polyester.
You remind me of the way I am when I buy a new car. I want to keep it perfect forever, but it never happens.
As a youth I joined a karate dojo, and felt uncomfortable in a new gi, which was thick, stiff, and a creamy off white color. The advanced guys gis were snow white and thin looking and supple. I must have washed that thing 10 times more than necessary, to lose the brand new look.
It's may be hard to see a new bass as a tool, but that's what they are. Tools will show their age and level of wear even if maintained properly. In fact, a guy starting in the shop with all new tools is often regarded as an amateur; tools don't stay new looking when they get used.
If you buy a bass for forever, it will show its age eventually no matter what you do. Get used to it, it's a "sign of good living" as the girlfriend from hell frequently says.
Tom
As a youth I joined a karate dojo, and felt uncomfortable in a new gi, which was thick, stiff, and a creamy off white color. The advanced guys gis were snow white and thin looking and supple. I must have washed that thing 10 times more than necessary, to lose the brand new look.
It's may be hard to see a new bass as a tool, but that's what they are. Tools will show their age and level of wear even if maintained properly. In fact, a guy starting in the shop with all new tools is often regarded as an amateur; tools don't stay new looking when they get used.
If you buy a bass for forever, it will show its age eventually no matter what you do. Get used to it, it's a "sign of good living" as the girlfriend from hell frequently says.
Tom
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I totally agree with what you are saying, in fact I am not trying to keep my bass "new", I just know that it is going to age and accompany me for decades. This is exactly why I'm trying to find out what it might look like in the future =)
For example, if the neck was going to get really darker than the body (which therefore, from what I've seen, probably won't because the body is likely to go dark as well), then I would take a sunburst model that I find it prettier in this case. Conversely I love the butercream models precisely because I find the contrast of the two colors (body and maple neck) just perfect! =)
For example, if the neck was going to get really darker than the body (which therefore, from what I've seen, probably won't because the body is likely to go dark as well), then I would take a sunburst model that I find it prettier in this case. Conversely I love the butercream models precisely because I find the contrast of the two colors (body and maple neck) just perfect! =)
As a long time furniture maker and professionally trained finisher, I have to chime in.
Polyurethane most certainly is a "varnish", just with a specific resin. Old school varnishes used phenolic resins, then there are urethanes, and then polyurethanes. They're all varnishes, some are oil based, others are water "based", but are actually glycols that can be thinned or cleaned up with water. All of these products molecularily crosslink as they cure, they don't dry. Applying the solvent to a cured finish won't redissolve it.
In Europe, shellac is often referred to as "spirit varnish" as it's alcohol based. Shellac redissolves if alcohol is applied, even many decades later, as it doesn't crosslink. This is known as an evaporative finish, because it doesn't cure, it "dries" as the alchohol evaporates.
Lacquer is simply a plastic or cotton based resin dissolved in a solvent. It is also non-crosslinking and will be redissolved by it's own solvent forever.
Lacquer and shellac resins are harder and far less flexible than urethanes or phenolic resins. This makes the two easier to buff up or down to a variable shine, but far more likely to crack, chip or alligator.
All are known as varnishes in different circles...
The crosslinking feature of phenolic and urethane resins makes them stay slightly softer and flexible, making them more durable and less likely to crack, but nearly impossible to repair and harder to buff. The redissolvable feature of lacquer and shellac make them easy to repair and subsequent coats melt the previous or "burn in". If a crosslinked finish is rubbed out, it often develops white lines that look like a topo map, known as witness lines, as you rub through different coats.
A big part of the yellowing that happens to certain finishes is actually a function of the oils (linseed, tung, etc...) used in the base aging. It's why waterbourne and alcohol based finishes stay water clear so much longer than petroleum based versions, and are often chosen for very light woods where "ambering" is not desired. The ambering process enhances darker woods, so amber dye is often added to non-ambering finishes.
Dyes are often added to age a new finish on vintage reproductions.
Hope this is useful!
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Not really... I have 20-25 year old raw maple boards, curly, hard, soft, birdseye... in my shop that have seen plenty of sunlight. They darken a tad, but nowhere near as much as old oil based finishes.
Pine darkens a lot more, cherry turns brown, oaks warm up, walnut fades...
thank you very much, suddenly if I understand correctly (English is not my native language), the urethane finishes like the one on my handle do not risk taking this very dark yellowish tint?
On the other hand, concerning the body, this time it is a polyester finish and not urethane, does it also risk darkening? Basically going from buttercream to ... a slightly darker yellow, we will say mustard ahah =)
In fact, I am not familiar with the differences between urethane, polyurethane, and polyester, nor which of these finishes is the most qualitative.
Thank you again for your help !
On the other hand, concerning the body, this time it is a polyester finish and not urethane, does it also risk darkening? Basically going from buttercream to ... a slightly darker yellow, we will say mustard ahah =)
In fact, I am not familiar with the differences between urethane, polyurethane, and polyester, nor which of these finishes is the most qualitative.
Thank you again for your help !
It depends...
With VOC regulations changing finish chemistry greatly in the last 10-15 years, many modern urethane and polyester finishes have traded petroleum solvents for glycols. Many of them will barely amber at all... They may be dyed, but the amber color will be immediate.
Polyester is simply another crosslinking finish, using a different resin and slightly different carrier solvents.
ok ok, I imagine all the same that, taking into account the increasingly present environmental standards, petroleum is not used very much, especially on models at this price. Finally, this is just a guess =)
For exemple, the pictures i saw before on this post are very reassuring. Their neck are no too dark or yellow =)
For exemple, the pictures i saw before on this post are very reassuring. Their neck are no too dark or yellow =)
I don’t think there’s any one right answer for this question. I think it depends on whether there’s UV resisting properties built into the finish or not. So, the finish on a Chinese built instrument is likely going to colour change at a different rate than one built in Mexico or Canada.
I have an Indonesian built Squier Vintage Modified 70’s jazz bass I bought brand new 6 years ago. It has been in the open on a stand since new. The body has become much darker, while the neck looks pretty much unchanged. My logic tells me that the two have different clear coats.
If you want to minimize colour change, keep the bass covered from the sun. I’ll try and remember to take a picture tomorrow. I think what you keep referring to as the “handle” is the neck?.
I have an Indonesian built Squier Vintage Modified 70’s jazz bass I bought brand new 6 years ago. It has been in the open on a stand since new. The body has become much darker, while the neck looks pretty much unchanged. My logic tells me that the two have different clear coats.
If you want to minimize colour change, keep the bass covered from the sun. I’ll try and remember to take a picture tomorrow. I think what you keep referring to as the “handle” is the neck?.
