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Alternative Rotary Tone/Selector for PB?

Hi and thanks in advance for reading this:


I’ve never had a bass with 2pick up before but now I find I have 2 good pickups to replace the disappointing 1 on my precision copy so I thought what I would do is use a blend but I found them kinda counter intuitive when I have encountered them in the past and in stores, etc plus I’m now hearing from various forums that there’s problems with graduations/variations and suchlike and two volumes are the only way to go? But two volumes are just too messy from me to handle “in the heat of battle“, as it were.


I had originally thought of making a true blend control out of variable resistors on 2 wafers of a 11way rotary switch but trying to find one that’s the right size to fit into a PBass cavity is a bit of a nightmare!

So I thought if selector switches are good enough for teles then they’ll be good enough for bass(!) and those subtle variations inbetween, Say, 80% bridge pick up/20% neck pick up will, alas, have to be sacrificed for the sake of simplicity or would those “subtle variations” available when two-volume pots are used be possible as presets within the rotary switch?


While looking for just a three way selector diagram, I started hearing about a possible 4 or more positions -much like the 4way telecaster mod where one has both pickups in series that I’ve liked on telecasters I’ve modded- so Maybe my multiple rotary idea isn’t a dead end?

My main criteria is to have a replacement “tone control” that gives a brighter, lighter or softer signal the more it’s turned clockwise and the tone seems to get darker/stronger when turned anticlockwise for intuitiveness’ sake.

My ideal would be would have to have the jazz Single coil on its own in one setting; the precision humbucker, In series with itself & on its own in another setting & both of these together in parallel

(100%/100%) as a bare minimum

It would be very nice to have a fourth position where the precision humbucker is alone & in parallel with itself but certainly a major secondary consideration would be to have both of them in series with each other(Like that four-way tele mod) and IF the Humbucker could be reduced in volume so as not to overpower the single jazz during this then that would be great or IF there is the possibility of a fifth or even sixth option where the humbucker is in parallel with itself BUT also in series with the Jazz single coil that would be even better -especially if this is in keeping with that convention of the so-called “tone” control going to the right being brighter and going counterclockwise to the left being darker!!

Maybe I’m asking too much but If there was just the telecaster four-way wiring available I suppose I could also put a series/parallel push/pull on the volume pot for the precision but would that be a bit finicky on stage..?


BTW I’m assuming that putting the precision ‘bucker out of phase with itself or just putting the both pickups out of phase (half or otherwise) with each other -whether or not that midd humbucker is in series or parallel with itself or in phase with itself, or whatever- is likely a bad idea…?


Any thoughts or especially diagrams you have for anything I’ve mentioned above will be greatly appreciated but either way I thank you for the time you’ve taken in reading this already long thread! :thumbsup:
 
Suggest just installing an active preamp like the very affordable Audere J series rather than mess about with all sorts of convoluted passive wiring, assuming your goal is to get maximum tonal variation.


Not neccasarilly MAXIMUM variation just an easier to use & yet not as basic as circuit as a stock PBass

I suppose a better question would be “there are 4 distinct tones in a 2P4T but are there two more in a 2P6T or 4P6T?”
 
For me you are way over-complicating things. Two volumes is just so much easier


Easier to solder & wire-up But searching between songs not so much?

Also I tend to turn down between songs and having 2 vols to deal with and then get them back up&running for the next tone is fiddling too much -for me at least!

Having the volumes be tone controls too is a possible muddle when 4 or so definite ‘clicks’of one dedicated knob seems best IMHO
 
Easier to solder & wire-up But searching between songs not so much?

Also I tend to turn down between songs and having 2 vols to deal with and then get them back up&running for the next tone is fiddling too much -for me at least!

Having the volumes be tone controls too is a possible muddle when 4 or so definite ‘clicks’of one dedicated knob seems best IMHO

I use a Jazz Bass live and often switch my pickup balance with two volumes. Need more cut? Dial in the bridge. Need more thump? Dial back the bridge. I almost never touch the neck pickup.

The rotary is a good idea but given the room you are playing, the balance needed may be minutely different every time and a rotary won’t give you that subtlety.

For ease of use (and a minimal amount at that) the rotary would remove flexibility from two volumes.
 
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Here's the thing. Whatever you wind up with, you'll "get used to". As you practice, rehearse, and perform with it, you'll bond with it. Your ears will gravitate toward certain settings. You'll build muscle memory for finding your favorites.

No matter what you install, you won't be "struggling" and "fumbling" unless you can't hear yourself at all.

So don't sweat it. If you want to try your complicated rotary things, go for it. But if you go with a simple volume/blend/tone or volume/tone/4-way selector deal with series.... or whatever..... it'll be fine in a few weeks once you get used to it.

You could hand me just about any bass, and tell me what the controls do, and about three songs in I'll be fine. Sure, I would perhaps PREFER my favorite bass, but I wouldn't "struggle" to find a usable tone or turn down between songs.


As stated above, you may be over thinking this a little. Unless it took a keypad password, four switches and 7 knobs to turn down between songs, I just can't see being a "struggle". :D
 
I suppose a better question would be “there are 4 distinct tones in a 2P4T but are there two more in a 2P6T or 4P6T?”

Yes, 2 more, affording 6.

I've done a similar thing to two Stingray style basses with one 4 conductor humbucking pickup. The second one, I added a 3 band preamp on top of the passive switching, and it is my main bass. The results are really versatile.

Unless you want hollow bassless tones, avoid phase switching. Regarding the Pbass series / parallel wiring options: use this to match the volume to the J bass pickup, but only if you truly need it. Balancing pickups can also be done with pickup height to the string, but only so much.

Series between both pickups will be your loudest, darkest sound. The Pbass alone will be a nicer sound for sure, and brighter. Both in parallel will be nicer again, and the bridge only could still end up aggressive.

As far as diagrams, its probably best to work from PRS guitar schematics - their rotary switches are quite complicated, and good examples. You can also expect to have to add your own thoughts, or design the whole thing on your own, using other ideas. Also reference Humbucker switching, since you are basically wiring a 4 conductor humbucker, it's just positioned differently. If you really think wiring the Pbass in series and parallel is worth it, then consider looking at mini toggle switches to do the job. Easier to install, more options, but not as simple as one knob turning.

Going a bit further, you can use passive tone controls to help you balance your sounds. Fixes resistors and RC networks could be used easily to help modify your sound in each click. The catch is the amound of exploring you will need to do to figure out what you really want. Perhaps you could mock up an experiment rig with a standard PBass vol + tone and switch it in to dial up a sound. If volume is your concern, you could use trim pots to tame and balance each setting too...

Good Luck!

Edit: I agree with what @Mosfed and @two fingers have said - its really not as hard as you think, and having the variation does help for many situations (thus the preamp on the passive switching). I also have done much of this to various guitars, and my fav is an SG with standard switching, and a few wiring tricks to make the volume and tone knobs interact more.
 
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Just thinking about this further, go Vol, Vol, tone, with a push / pull series / passive switch on one of the volumes. If this was @Mosfed's bass, I would put it on his neck pickup because he touches that knob often. But truth be told, he would never switch it from his fav setting, then just balance the volume anyways.

All the wiring I did has me using usually only one setting, not because of any reason other than it sounds perfect in the mix. I tune the bass knob here and there, and switch to passive for some drive sounds. Still love a Pbass Vol + tone simplicity tho.
 
Not neccasarilly MAXIMUM variation just an easier to use & yet not as basic as circuit as a stock PBass

I suppose a better question would be “there are 4 distinct tones in a 2P4T but are there two more in a 2P6T or 4P6T?”

Depends on what you mean by tones.

With two single coils you can basically wire for series, parallel, or phase. On a PB you’re not going to hear that much variation between series and parallel. And at stage volume I think the distinction is going to be mostly if not entirely lost.

If you want to stay passive, you could experiment with different capacitor values and make different ones switch selectable, or just get a premade unit from Stellartone. Or try incorporating a Wilde Q-filter to get more control on the midrange. But how practical it is all depends on your use case. In the studio you can fiddle to your heart’s content. On stage, all that flexibility gets in the way. For live you probably want a more simple and straight ahead set of controls most times.

I’ll also +1 on @Alien8 ’s earlier suggestion to look at the PRS schematics to get a good idea of how rotary switches work. Those are some of the more clever switching schemes out there.

If you want to get serious about fancy switching I’d also suggest learning to read basic schematic rather than just wiring diagrams. Schematics are better at showing circuits on a functional level whereas wiring diagrams only illustrate one way to implement the wiring of a circuit.
 
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FWIW, on two-pickup basses, I’ve found that I tend to like one pickup soloed, a 50/50 blend (which gives a bit of mid-scoop), or approx. 80/20 blend one way or another. Beyond that, it’s way too subtle to hear the difference in a mix. Any of those combinations can be accomplished with either a blend knob or a five-way selector switch.
 
Here's the thing. Whatever you wind up with, you'll "get used to". As you practice, rehearse, and perform with it, you'll bond with it. Your ears will gravitate toward certain settings. You'll build muscle memory for finding your favorites.

No matter what you install, you won't be "struggling" and "fumbling" unless you can't hear yourself at all.

So don't sweat it. If you want to try your complicated rotary things, go for it. But if you go with a simple volume/blend/tone or volume/tone/4-way selector deal with series.... or whatever..... it'll be fine in a few weeks once you get used to it.

You could hand me just about any bass, and tell me what the controls do, and about three songs in I'll be fine. Sure, I would perhaps PREFER my favorite bass, but I wouldn't "struggle" to find a usable tone or turn down between songs.


As stated above, you may be over thinking this a little. Unless it took a keypad password, four switches and 7 knobs to turn down between songs, I just can't see being a "struggle". :D


I guess that’s true enough!
 
Yes, 2 more, affording 6.

I've done a similar thing to two Stingray style basses with one 4 conductor humbucking pickup. The second one, I added a 3 band preamp on top of the passive switching, and it is my main bass. The results are really versatile.

Unless you want hollow bassless tones, avoid phase switching. Regarding the Pbass series / parallel wiring options: use this to match the volume to the J bass pickup, but only if you truly need it. Balancing pickups can also be done with pickup height to the string, but only so much.

Series between both pickups will be your loudest, darkest sound. The Pbass alone will be a nicer sound for sure, and brighter. Both in parallel will be nicer again, and the bridge only could still end up aggressive.

As far as diagrams, its probably best to work from PRS guitar schematics - their rotary switches are quite complicated, and good examples. You can also expect to have to add your own thoughts, or design the whole thing on your own, using other ideas. Also reference Humbucker switching, since you are basically wiring a 4 conductor humbucker, it's just positioned differently. If you really think wiring the Pbass in series and parallel is worth it, then consider looking at mini toggle switches to do the job. Easier to install, more options, but not as simple as one knob turning.

Going a bit further, you can use passive tone controls to help you balance your sounds. Fixes resistors and RC networks could be used easily to help modify your sound in each click. The catch is the amound of exploring you will need to do to figure out what you really want. Perhaps you could mock up an experiment rig with a standard PBass vol + tone and switch it in to dial up a sound. If volume is your concern, you could use trim pots to tame and balance each setting too...

Good Luck!

Edit: I agree with what @Mosfed and @two fingers have said - its really not as hard as you think, and having the variation does help for many situations (thus the preamp on the passive switching). I also have done much of this to various guitars, and my fav is an SG with standard switching, and a few wiring tricks to make the volume and tone knobs interact more.


“Yes, 2 more, affording 6.
I've done a similar thing to two Stingray style basses with one 4 conductor humbucking pickup” do you have any diagrams you could share, please?


Trim Pot on the PBass pickup -whilst making the soloed option quiet too- would be a good idea. Thanks!
 
FWIW, on two-pickup basses, I’ve found that I tend to like one pickup soloed, a 50/50 blend (which gives a bit of mid-scoop), or approx. 80/20 blend one way or another. Beyond that, it’s way too subtle to hear the difference in a mix. Any of those combinations can be accomplished with either a blend knob or a five-way selector switch.


Do you have any diagrams, etc, for a 5way, please?