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Amp and Speaker question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by skyj, Mar 29, 2009.


  1. skyj

    skyj

    Mar 29, 2007
    Hey guys, i'm new to the forum. have a question about my rig. I have an SWR workingman's 300 head (600 watts @ 4 ohms) and a Hartke XL 4.5 cabinet (400 watts @ 8 ohms).

    I'm have to max out all volume and gain levels to compete with 2 15" guitar combo amps, drums and a singer.

    what do i need to do to get more volume?

    thanks is advance!
     
  2. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    Welcome! :)

    A 2nd 400 watt, 8 ohm cab should allow your amp to achieve its maximum power output & volume.

    * :eek: Better yet, get the guit's to turn down and/or use less bass in their sound.

    There's no point in going deaf!
     
  3. uaudio

    uaudio

    Apr 11, 2008
    Arizona
    If we're talking about the same Workingman's 300, I believe its only 160W at 8ohms. If you add another 8ohm cabinet, it will boost the wattage to 270W at 4ohms, but will sound louder due to the increase in speaker surface area.

    That head is supposedly good to go all the way to 2.7ohms (340W).
     
  4. Rick Auricchio

    Rick Auricchio Registered Bass Offender

    And get the guitars to turn down their bottom end. If they're cranking heavy bass, it totally swamps your sound. Besides that, it ruins the arrangement when you're playing one part and the guitars are playing a different part.

    Cut your bottom end and keep your mids in the mix. Boominess doesn't cut through. The absolute worst is the scooped-mids sound. SWR amps were designed for that tone. So setting the amp flat may not be ideal; try a little boosted mids.

    As for increasing loudness, you do need more speaker area. And most cabs won't get to their full power rating before farting out. When that happens, you have to back off.
     
  5. Welcome to Talkbass! :)

    First of all, tell the gui****s to turn it down. :D

    Okay, joking aside... it sounds like the guitarists are competing with each other, which in turn makes everyone else louder. Guitar amps take a lot less power to be LOUD while bass amps take MUCH more power to produce all the low frequencies we bass players love so much.

    The problem you might be having is like uaudio said: the Workingman 300 is only is only 160 watts with your Hartke cab. Adding another 8ohm cab for a 4ohm, 270 watt rig would be one solution, trying a different head with more power might be another. Beware though, it takes a lot more power to make a cabinet seem "louder." My previous rig was a Hartke HA4000 with a Hartke Pro4200 cab (400 watt head @ 4 ohms with that cab) and I never had any problems. I recently downsized to an Avatar B210 that I'm feeding 375 watts and still haven't had any trouble in either of my groups. One is just a trio at the moment, but the other has drums, vocalist/acoustic guitar, two electric guitars, keys and drums.

    Adding power or another cab might be good solutions, but finding a better balance for practices might be the better (and cheaper) short term answer. Another bonus to that is that it might help save your hearing, too. :)

    5sg.
     
  6. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    +1

    Workingman's 300:

    "SPEAKER JACKS: Use an unshielded 2-conductor cable (NOT A GUITAR CORD!) to connect any speakers to your Workingman's 300. Use a high quality, heavy gauge cable of at least 18 gauge (the lower the gauge, the heavier the cable). The total impedance of the speakers should be 2.6 Ohms or greater. This means you can use 1- 4 ohm cabinet in conjunction with 1- 8 ohm, 3- 8 ohm enclosures or 6- 16 ohm cabinets. Recommended speaker cabs from SWR are: Goliath III, Workingman's 2x10T or 4x10T, and Big Ben 18" (you can use any three of these as they are all 8 ohms). You may use one of the following: Henry 8x8, Triad I and Goliath Jr.III (4 ohm) in conjunction with one 8 ohm enclosure. Power Output: 160 Watts @ 8 Ohms, 270 Watts @ 4 Ohms, 350 Watts @ 2.6 Ohm"

    --------

    4.5 XL - 4x10 with HF Driver XL Series Cabinet:

    "Expanded-Design" Tuned, Ported Cabinet
    Custom Hartke 5" Aluminum-Cone High-Frequency Driver
    Four Hartke XL 10" Aluminum-Cone Bass Drivers
    Power Handling: 400 Watts @ 8 Ohms
    Frequency Response: 30 Hz To 12 kHz
    Sensitivity: 99 dB @ 1 W/1 M
    Voice Coil: 1.5"
    Magnet Weight: 60 Oz.
    Parallel 1/4" Inputs
    Dimensions: 27"(H) X 24"(W) X 18"(D)
    Weight: 99 lb.
     
  7. elancaster808

    elancaster808

    Aug 18, 2012
    Hartke 'Kilo' +'Hydrive 4x10" + 'Hydrive 2x10". The perfect rig! I use the same setup, except I have the older Hartke pro4200 4x10" (which in my opinion is the best cab Larry ever made.) It is louder & has way more bottom than my SVT 810! For rehearsals use the 2x10(500wts) good for small clubs. The Hydrive 410 is perfect for larger clubs, and for outdoor gigs or festivals, throw the Hydrive 210 on top for INSANE RUMP SHAKIN' BASS. My Hartke rig was heard & audible 3.5 miles away into the town we were playin just outside of! I have owned nearly every amp & cab made, and have gone back to Hartke for good! I do however use a phill Jones 8x5" paired with a Walter Woods 'Blue' for the studio. But still use the Pro4200 in the studio occasinally for that Hartke sound. I put it out in the hallway & mic the cab & the engineer placed another mic @ the end of the hall that made a chorus effect.
     
  8. Get a matching cab, Try turning your bass knob down and get good and loud with the pre, mid treb, and master, then just slowly add some bass till it's fuller, don't go deep with your bass eq it takes 300X more watts to reproduce freq below 80hz anaway. Use those watts for mids.

    Or you could secretley install power attentuators in both gui****s amps some night.
     
  9. The above advice to add a 2nd matching cab is the ideal solution.

    The amp power rating is not where it's at: it's the output Voltage that counts.
    The power rating is just a limit on how much load the amp will tolerate at a given voltage.

    Doing the math, 160w into 8 ohms is 35.7 volts.
    Amps are voltage devices, so the 35.7v stays the same at 4 or 8 ohm loads.
    What changes with a 4 ohm load is the current draw.
    With a 4-ohm load, the amp draws double the power, or 320 watts.

    If the WM300 is rated for 320w at 4 ohms, you can continue using the 35.7 volts output.
    Adding a 2nd matching cab gets you +6dB additional noise.
    +10dB is heard as "twice as loud", so two cabs is a significant boost.

    The added benefit is a cleaner sound from both cabs, if not pushed to the limits.
     

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