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Amp DI Thread

#6
I've been having this very debate with myself. Lots of guys here say to DI pre-EQ because your EQ will mess with the mains. Others send a post-DI eq, either mic'ing the amp or putting a countryman between the amp and the cabinet.

I've been experimenting. I used a super redhead for years, and loved the DI on it. My soundman wanted it set to pre-eq, which I did for a long time. On the day I switched it to post-EQ, he commented how good my bass sounded that night. Ran it post EQ after that. So I kind of think the pre- thing is personal preference only. I mean, if you boost the lows to the point it causes a problem, then what difference does it make whether you boosted them at the amp or on the active circuit in your bass? If you have a good, reasonable flat cabinet, your amps EQ ought to be usable FOH.

I can run a cheap DI and get a decent sound. I've been using the direct out on my LMII (post-eq), and it is ok too.

I ordered a microbass ii, and am returning it. Sounds great on the A channel, but there you can only control the mids as an "enhance" function tied to the treble knob. When you mix in the B channel, it adds some hiss, and that's a deal-breaker for me. I can boost the treble on my Lakland's pre with no additional noise in the signal at all.

So, my new plan is this: I've replacing the microbass with a JDI. I'll see where that gets me with my active basses. If I run a passive bass, I can put my Sadowsky preamp in front of it to buffer the signal. I love the sadowsky pre-, but I'm a little scared of the DI on it. I've had problems with it humming a couple times. It was probably a power thing, but other DIs didn't do it, so I'm scared to count on it.

I figure, if I run Lakland 4-94->JDI->PA or passive bass (Jaguar or Dingwall)->Sadowsky pre->JDI->PA, then the weak link in the chain will be the mediocre PA we're using. I'll be doing my job and getting a good tone to the PA. Which the soundman will then be free to mutilate to his satisfaction.
 
#7
I've been having this very debate with myself. Lots of guys here say to DI pre-EQ because your EQ will mess with the mains. Others send a post-DI eq, either mic'ing the amp or putting a countryman between the amp and the cabinet.

I've been experimenting. I used a super redhead for years, and loved the DI on it. My soundman wanted it set to pre-eq, which I did for a long time. On the day I switched it to post-EQ, he commented how good my bass sounded that night. Ran it post EQ after that. So I kind of think the pre- thing is personal preference only. I mean, if you boost the lows to the point it causes a problem, then what difference does it make whether you boosted them at the amp or on the active circuit in your bass? If you have a good, reasonable flat cabinet, your amps EQ ought to be usable FOH.

I can run a cheap DI and get a decent sound. I've been using the direct out on my LMII (post-eq), and it is ok too.

I ordered a microbass ii, and am returning it. Sounds great on the A channel, but there you can only control the mids as an "enhance" function tied to the treble knob. When you mix in the B channel, it adds some hiss, and that's a deal-breaker for me. I can boost the treble on my Lakland's pre with no additional noise in the signal at all.

So, my new plan is this: I've replacing the microbass with a JDI. I'll see where that gets me with my active basses. If I run a passive bass, I can put my Sadowsky preamp in front of it to buffer the signal. I love the sadowsky pre-, but I'm a little scared of the DI on it. I've had problems with it humming a couple times. It was probably a power thing, but other DIs didn't do it, so I'm scared to count on it.

I figure, if I run Lakland 4-94->JDI->PA or passive bass (Jaguar or Dingwall)->Sadowsky pre->JDI->PA, then the weak link in the chain will be the mediocre PA we're using. I'll be doing my job and getting a good tone to the PA. Which the soundman will then be free to mutilate to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...

Have you looked at the Radial Bassbone for this option? Since you have both active and passive basses it seems this may work too. I'm looking at it seriously since I sometimes use 2 basses and can match levels with one send. Does anyone have a comment about the Bassbone's tonal properties?
 
#8
for versatility the Radial Bassbone or the SansAmp 3 chnl. programmable will both work good. I lean towards the 3 chnl because it gives you a few more options.

others to consider: Aguilar Tone Hammer (so so good), SansAmp VT pedal (not a DI, but just put it in front of a DI and you have tonal options). That combo would actually be really cool.
 
#11
I don't really understand the pre-EQ mentality -- isn't the whole point of EQ to shape your personal tone? If you DI pre-EQ you're potentially messing not only with your sound as a bassist, but also the the mix of the entire band.. seems an odd sort of thing to do.
 
#12
::Saint:: said:
I don't really understand the pre-EQ mentality -- isn't the whole point of EQ to shape your personal tone? If you DI pre-EQ you're potentially messing not only with your sound as a bassist, but also the the mix of the entire band.. seems an odd sort of thing to do.
Click to expand...

I have always sent a post eq signal to the board. I have our soundman run me fairly flat at the board and tweak as needed per venue. I dig my tone and that's what I want coming out of the fronts.
 
#14
In a church setting with in-ears, I've used the following, ranked in order of best sounding to worse:

Avalon U5
Genz Benz Shuttle and GBE 1200
Radial JDI
Tonebone
Sansamp
Eden wt550
Ampeg SVTIII
Generic passive DI boxes

None of them sounded necessarily "bad", but the U5 is definitely one of the nicest sounding of them all. The Genz DI is probably the cleanest sounding of any of the builtin amp/DI units. The Radial JDI is a great plain ol' DI box that works any time, all the time.

Hard to beat a U5 for clean, warm bass though.
 
#15
Tapp said:
Have you looked at the Radial Bassbone for this option? Since you have both active and passive basses it seems this may work too. I'm looking at it seriously since I sometimes use 2 basses and can match levels with one send. Does anyone have a comment about the Bassbone's tonal properties?
Click to expand...

I looked at the manual, but haven't tried one. It looks to me like this thing kind of shoots itself in the foot, though. Here's what I mean:

1) The DI is post-eq only. This is probably ok most of the time, but I can't go pre-eq if I want to.
2) The EQ is just silly. Channel 2 has a normal low, mid, high arrangement, but channel 1 just has a couple preset EQ curves. The microbass suffers from this too - on it channel A has lows and highs and channel B has semi-parametric mids. I don't get understand what the manufacturers are thinking.
3) If it can be used a a DI, which is a selling point, then why is there no "through" output? The only output is post eq. Why not just put another jack in parallel with the input? What if I want to send a little more treble to the mains and not my amp?
4) Icing on the cake, really, is the tuner mute option. They diagram putting a dummy 1/4" plug in the effects loop. Would it kill them to add a toggle to control the function of this footswitch?

It probably is a great product, but for something designed to be a jack-of-all-trades, I'd say that, based on the specs, its ready for version two.

Of course, this is all based on reading about it and never having heard it. Not buying a bassbone could well be a big mistake on my part. But, I'll have my JDI on Wednesday.
 
#17
Cool, thanks for the opinions. Now, I'm wondering if I should get the Sansamp programmable as my D.I. and "tone shaper" all-in-one or get something "clean" like a Countryman or JDI and add the VT pedal in front. Right now I don't use effects but I'm thinking about adding a small pedal board with tuner and a few effects/w D.I. Something very compact.

So many options.....

Tapp
 
#18
I've done just about everything possible.. tested about 60 setups.

OPINION - Backup
Start with the staffing, gear and a wireless at the back of the chruch... there are tons of factors besides what DI you can afford.

BUDGET
Are you buying it or passing the bill to be pulled from the collection plate? "Good" may be good enough in the scope of your congegation. I've tested a $50, $200 and $500 DI - our biggest critic can not tell the difference - he sees that he likes my red bass. It is possible to over spend on this and rob the money from a better use (hotrodz etc).

Sincere Reminder..
Your average congregation member can not hear and/or distinguish the weeks you rotate DI boxes.. they can hear more when the bass end spectrum drops out.

KLOVE type sound
I've learned that a quality active bass and passive DI are more of the sound on most of the KLove type tunes.

OPINION - start with the room
Before dropping bucks on a MXR, Radial, Sans or Countryman, Whirlwind, GT (I own them all) .. most churches need a sound physics dude to come in with $15,000 in gear and do a RTA analysis and set the EQ and lock it in place. Most of us are fighting rooms built without rock bands in mind - not the difference between DI boxes.

Remember a sound guy often believes he's there to move knobs not kick back and smile when it's locked into place.. stuff doesn't need to move after it's dialed in. This is especially true with volunteers

APOLOGY
Hoping I don't sound overly curt - trying to give you the most direct and reasonable answer out there... it's common on TB to ignore we're fighting room acoustics and physics (especially in churches) - not if my Botique $$$$$$ bass is better than my 50s PBass.

Thanks for understanding.. there's tons of money wasted with good intentions. The replies you received did not discuss the basics

PM me if I can be of service (anyone)

Tim

PS- if you're looking for the best of all worlds on a skinny budget.. test the MXR M-80 Bass DI.. It has some cool live performance features described above.. can be bought in great condition used for $50-60 used.. I normally do recording with a Countryman.. if you want knobs to turn and cash in the retirement fund (or hotrods budget/collection plate).. this may be good enough... I only post this piece of gear as it doesn't get much attention and can be a cheaper mistake than laying out for a Tone Bone that gramma can't hear.
 
#19
IE Units and a Doctor First
I should also point out that the replies did not note that the actual IE unit (multi driver, KMart or botique) fit by an audiologist will make more difference to you. I can't stress that if you really only care about what you hear.. the in ears fit by a pro are the biggest difference.. a doctor charges about $125 for the service..

Have your Congregation decide -
You're sending "tone" to folks that have tons of different perceptions of what "good" is.. some may be old schoolers flat wounds on a Pbass.. some may be rockers wanting a clanky pick on a stingray.. some may be John Tesh/Yanni types wanting a full non-busy sound.
 

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