Ampeg 410HLF - Midrange Dilemma!

[Alex Huddleston]

I've been gigging and practicing for years with my 410HLF that I picked up for cheap on craigslist and have been very satisfied with it until recently as I've become more of a "tone nerd" and have been picking up some nicer equipment. I still love the HLF and all of its low-end greatness, but I've run into the same problem many have with this cab... there's no midrange.

I'm mainly wondering whether I would be better off getting rid of it and getting new cab/s all together or if I could possibly add a 112 or 210HE to run with it so my tone isn't always so scooped. I'm using a Mesa D800 as my head (2 ohm switch on the back so I should be able to run another cab with it in parallel I believe?). Would having a smaller, sealed cab sitting higher up on top of the add enough midrange to help my problem? I'm not completely unsatisfied with running the HLF by itself for the time being, but I feel like it just leaves me yearning for more of that midrange grunt. Thoughts?

 

[jlepre]

I would dump it as mixing cabs is definitely a crap shoot. I had the same issue with my 410HLF years ago, and never looked back. Plus schlepping that cab was a pain in the A$$ as well. JMHO

 

[JimiLL]

Sell it most likely not good to mix

 

[denhou1974]

No Mid Range through your 410HLF? I usually have to dial mine down. And I prefer more mid tone.

Ampeg SVT3PRO
Warwick Corvette 5

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

I struggled with this for a long time. I too love the SVT-410HLF, but it is most certainly mid-shy.

Try EQ. A pedal if your amp's EQ can't make it happen. This may be a combination of pulling out some lows and boosting some mids. Maybe even turning the tweeter down. I was able to be completely happy going this route.

 

[jdubbass38]

If you like the 410hlf but want more mid the ampeg 610hlf is a great cabinet. It has some nice mid range but also keeps some of the lows, definitely not as much as the 410hlf.

 

[JimmyM]

Older 410hlf's are mid-deficient and bottom heavy. Newer ones made since approx. 2010 have corrected both issues. They still go way low but the lows aren't overwhelming and the mids are much more present.

 

[Lepparda]

Switched from an Ampeg 410HLF to an Aguilar DB410 a few months ago. Never looked back.

 

[rodl2005]

I struggled with this for a long time. I too love the SVT-410HLF, but it is most certainly mid-shy.

Try EQ. A pedal if your amp's EQ can't make it happen. This may be a combination of pulling out some lows and boosting some mids. Maybe even turning the tweeter down. I was able to be completely happy going this route.

This. ..or another cab. I went to a Bergantino NV610 & it was an incredible experience of hearing mids that were previously unheard.
Mine was a pre 2010 SLM model.
I've used newer 410HLF cabs and noticed they are more mid oriented than my old one, but still ain't my cup of tea or coffee, or hot choc neither.

 

[craigie]

I A/B'd a Traynor TC410-4 against the ampeg 410 hlf and that explains why the Traynor just slayed it. Thanks for posting! (dump the ampeg and get one cab that works like my Eden 212 XLT

 

[blubass]

Rethink how you are using your eq. Some people attack an eq problem by just boosting what they think is lacking. Take the time to understand the frequencies of each eq knob on your head, and how best to use them to get the mids more apparent.

One generic example: think of a 3 band eq.... bass mid treble. Leaving the mids at noon and rolling back bass and treble, is NOT the same as leaving bass and treble at noon and boosting the mids.

I heard the same no-mids garbage about the 610hlf, and it's been a midrange beast for me once eq'd properly. It has actually made me write off some members opinions here as they had either jumped on the bandwagon and railed that cab with zero real-world experience, or they don't know equalization.

Turning knobs on your existing equipment is free. Isolate that the problem is your cab and not a lack of understanding or willingness to try something different. No small cabs should be added with the 410hlf either. The power differential will render the volume of the smaller cab useless compared to the 410.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

There have been some suggestions to just get rid of your SVT-410HLF. If you don't necessarily want the low end it offers, this may be the way to go. Keep in mind, very few cabs can do lows like the SVT-410HLF. And in the case of the cabs that can't, you simply cannot EQ those lows in. You can EQ some mid-range into the cab you have now.

 

[Stumbo]

Your 2 band mid control should be helpful. Turn off deep switch if on. Cut the bass to zero.

I also suggest you go FOH to hear here you sit in the mix and adjust to that instead of rehearsal or solo.

 

[AlexanderB]

I've been gigging and practicing for years with my 410HLF that I picked up for cheap on craigslist and have been very satisfied with it until recently as I've become more of a "tone nerd" and have been picking up some nicer equipment. I still love the HLF and all of its low-end greatness, but I've run into the same problem many have with this cab... there's no midrange.

I'm mainly wondering whether I would be better off getting rid of it and getting new cab/s all together or if I could possibly add a 112 or 210HE to run with it so my tone isn't always so scooped. I'm using a Mesa D800 as my head (2 ohm switch on the back so I should be able to run another cab with it in parallel I believe?). Would having a smaller, sealed cab sitting higher up on top of the add enough midrange to help my problem? I'm not completely unsatisfied with running the HLF by itself for the time being, but I feel like it just leaves me yearning for more of that midrange grunt. Thoughts?

The SVT-410HLF is - as mentioned - a rare cab in its capacity of going deep AND loud. There are two tradeoffs; sensitivity and voicing. The newer models (as mentioned) have more mids, but still benefit GREATLY from being driven by a powerful amp. While it sounds "just fine" (quite good) with my LMII, it really wakes up once it is powered with my pre/power amp combo. Clarity and definition is better, as is the low end, being "mud free" and distinct.

By the way, the SVT-210HE is a great add-on. Also vented, slightly smaller per driver and using the exact same transducers as the HLF.
I run this combo with great results. The taller stack gives MUCH better projection up to my ears. In my case I power the cabs from separate amp channels, backing off the gain on the 210 by 2-3 dB since I do not need it as loud as the 410, as it is closer to my ears. If they share a common power source, the 8 Ohm 210 gets half the power the 410, so there is no grave danger of blowing the speakers.

 

[Alex Huddleston]

Update: I think I will keep the HLF around for a bit, maybe try to pick up the 610. I think a large part of the reason I think I couldn't dial in a good tone with it has to do with my practice space. My band jams in a smaller room with two drumkits and a bunch of other gear in it and I think the acoustics of the room might be sucking the tone. We played a show on Wednesday and it sounded HUGE. I actually had to turn down from what I normally play at practice.

I think with a preamp like a B7K and a compressor in front of it, the D800 will be able to make this cab sing. A few buddies of mine started doing an open jam night at a bar close to my house on Wednesday nights that has a good sized PA system and stage. I think I'll use this as an opportunity to dial in my live sound and test out different equipment. I've got a Rickenbacker 4003 that's supposed to be delivered today which are supposedly a bit lacking in the low end, so maybe the HLF will balance the tone of the ric out a bit

 

[blubass]

Where do you set the high pass filter on the d800? That can have a dramatic effect on tightening up the huge low end of the HLF. As a benefit of utilizing the HPF, it relieves the amp from using so much power for the low end, and will allow the midrange to better stand out.

On a side note, I just used my PF500 with the 610HLF again last night, instead of my GK1001RB II. I'll probably start a thread on the results, but long story short, the PF had a reduced amount of low end comparatively. That caused the low response of the cab to tighten up significantly and allowed the midrange to become more apparent.

 

[jdubbass38]

Where do you set the high pass filter on the d800? That can have a dramatic effect on tightening up the huge low end of the HLF. As a benefit of utilizing the HPF, it relieves the amp from using so much power for the low end, and will allow the midrange to better stand out.

On a side note, I just used my PF500 with the 610HLF again last night, instead of my GK1001RB II. I'll probably start a thread on the results, but long story short, the PF had a reduced amount of low end comparatively. That caused the low response of the cab to tighten up significantly and allowed the midrange to become more apparent.

I should add i always run my 610hlf with the horn off, again I find it to have great mid rage and it's a killer setup with the v4b reissue.

 

[blubass]

I should add i always run my 610hlf with the horn off, again I find it to have great mid rage and it's a killer setup with the v4b reissue.

As do I....

 

[JGbassman]

I've ran a hlf for a long time and love it. It's been said already, but if you cut your lows back and boost the mids on your amp, you can trick your ears into hearing plenty of mids. Once you get the pronounced mids, slowly blend the lows back in until it's balanced. If you start losing mids during a show, roll back the lows until you catch the mids again. I toured with one and a svt cl head, and this was my formula on getting the balanced sound I wanted.

Just remember these cabs are voiced bass heavy, so compensate accordingly. Once you master frequencies, it's not that hard to get a great sound out of any cab/head combo.

I learned to dial in frequencies in on a 31 band eq. They used to be all the rage on bass systems, and it's a very tangible way to learn what the different frequencies sound like.

 

[Alex Huddleston]

Rethink how you are using your eq. Some people attack an eq problem by just boosting what they think is lacking. Take the time to understand the frequencies of each eq knob on your head, and how best to use them to get the mids more apparent.

One generic example: think of a 3 band eq.... bass mid treble. Leaving the mids at noon and rolling back bass and treble, is NOT the same as leaving bass and treble at noon and boosting the mids.

I heard the same no-mids garbage about the 610hlf, and it's been a midrange beast for me once eq'd properly. It has actually made me write off some members opinions here as they had either jumped on the bandwagon and railed that cab with zero real-world experience, or they don't know equalization.

Turning knobs on your existing equipment is free. Isolate that the problem is your cab and not a lack of understanding or willingness to try something different. No small cabs should be added with the 410hlf either. The power differential will render the volume of the smaller cab useless compared to the 410.

This helped me a lot and after twiddling with the knobs I've found a sound that I not only can live with, but LOVE. This should've been obvious to me, but for some reason I had it in my head that messing with the EQ heavily or making big cuts on any given knob was a no-no. I played a gig on Tuesday with these settings and the HLF sounded absolutely massive with my stingray and cut through the wall of distortion coming through my guitarists 5150 with ease. Note, I have the gain dimed temporarily to try to get an overdriven sound until I can afford a darkglass pedal and while not the greatest drive, gets the job done. I also turned the tweeter completely off and was still able to get plenty of treble bite. I'll be sure to give this advice to anyone who feels they have the same problem with their HLF. Thank you!