Ampeg B2RE Cabinet Question

[Thunder4]

Hello All,
I am currently Running a Ampeg SVT-410HE with a Ampeg B2RE in an 80's cover band. I LOVE the sound I'm getting but I need a bit more volume. I need to add another cabinet so I can use the amp to its 4 ohm potential. I'm interested in your opinions and wonder what other people pair up with the SVT410HE. What might work the best for me? I'm considering adding another SVT-410HE but maybe a 1x15 or a 2x10 instead. Any suggestions / opinions greatly appreciated. Thank You.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

SVT410HE

 

[mbelue]

810e used. Leave the 410 at home.
The big boy cab is easier to move with its wheels.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I would go with a 1x15. It will add some fullness to the bottom. I've been using a B1RE (like the B2, but without the EQ) with an SWR Workingman 2x10 and a Hartke XLR 1x15. Believe me, you will get all the volumen you need. I played a mulitple band barn gig and my amp was the back line bass amp. While another band was on I went out into the audience and outside and I could hear it well everywhere. Had a few of the other bass players make positive comments on how it sounded.
I know there are those who say mixing cabs is a sin, but I don't agree with them at all. IMHO, the larger 15 adds the fullness and the 10s add the punch.

 

[mbelue]

I would go with a 1x15. It will add some fullness to the bottom. I've been using a B1RE (like the B2, but without the EQ) with an SWR Workingman 2x10 and a Hartke XLR 1x15. Believe me, you will get all the volumen you need. I played a mulitple band barn gig and my amp was the back line bass amp. While another band was on I went out into the audience and outside and I could hear it well everywhere. Had a few of the other bass players make positive comments on how it sounded.
I know there are those who say mixing cabs is a sin, but I don't agree with them at all. IMHO, the larger 15 adds the fullness and the 10s add the punch.

Your result is valid only to your experience. It does NOT reflect the reality of all our even most 15" bass cabs. The size is just a size. Tone is just tone.
Size ≠ tone.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

I know there are those who say mixing cabs is a sin, but I don't agree with them at all. IMHO, the larger 15 adds the fullness and the 10s add the punch.

I guess you never heard of Acme cabs.

Their 10's put many 15's to shame - so much for the supposed "sound" of 10's

Also - YOUR mixture may sound good because at least a 1X15 and a 2X10 are more closely matched in sensitivity and output.

However, recommending a 1X15 to mix with a 4X10 is not as good since a 1X15 only has about the same output as a 2X10, it will not keep up with the output of a 4X10.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I guess you never heard of Acme cabs.

Their 10's put many 15's to shame - so much for the supposed "sound" of 10's

Also - YOUR mixture may sound good because at least a 1X15 and a 2X10 are more closely matched in sensitivity and output.

However, recommending a 1X15 to mix with a 4X10 is not as good since a 1X15 only has about the same output as a 2X10, it will not keep up with the output of a 4X10.

Sorry, Old wifes tale. There is nothing wrong with it, it will not hurt andy components at all. It sounds greate. Oh, and I did forget to mention the 2x10 has a tweeter in it, so I am totall mismached. Sort of like a FOH with 18s, 15s, 10s, horns, and all sorts of speaker configurations.
This myth is like don't go swimming for an hour after eating.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Sorry, Old wifes tale. There is nothing wrong with it, it will not hurt andy components at all. It sounds greate. Oh, and I did forget to mention the 2x10 has a tweeter in it, so I am totall mismached. Sort of like a FOH with 18s, 15s, 10s, horns, and all sorts of speaker configurations.
This myth is like don't go swimming for an hour after eating.

Sorry, but you are the one who is wrong.

FOH is like that because:

A: the different sized speakers are specially designed to work with a certain frequency range (not full range speakers as bass cabs are).

B: FOH employs the use of crossovers.

 

[Thunder4]

I guess you never heard of Acme cabs.

Their 10's put many 15's to shame - so much for the supposed "sound" of 10's

Also - YOUR mixture may sound good because at least a 1X15 and a 2X10 are more closely matched in sensitivity and output.

However, recommending a 1X15 to mix with a 4X10 is not as good since a 1X15 only has about the same output as a 2X10, it will not keep up with the output of a 4X10.

Cool, yeah the reason I was considering adding a 2x10 or 1x15 to the 4x10 was because It would be smaller / not so tall when stacked. The 2x10 or 1x15 prob not a good match for the 4x10, just need another 4x10 I suppose.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Your result is valid only to your experience. It does NOT reflect the reality of all our even most 15" bass cabs. The size is just a size. Tone is just tone.
Size ≠ tone.

Then why are we not all playing through 6" speakers? They would be easier to move around and take less power to drive.
No, tone is affected by the speaker size, among other things. 18s are used for subwoofers, why not 2 or 3 hundred 4" speakers instead? The problem with them for other than really low notes is the voice coil travel distance and time. It can't move fast enought to respond to higher frequencies. That gives them a floupy sound. 15s are a reasonable compromise for lows because they will not be as floupy and respond better to the middle of the bass range. You will get a full round sound, but may not have the highs you need. The smaller the speaker, the better the resonse to high frequencies and the worse the response to low frequecies.
And my experience goes back 51 years, so I think I've played enough different rigs to have a valid opinion.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Sorry, but you are the one who is wrong.

FOH is like that because:

A: the different sized speakers are specially designed to work with a certain frequency range (not full range speakers as bass cabs are).

B: FOH employs the use of crossovers.

Actually, you are making my point. The difference in speaker sizes enhances various frequecies. Also, an FOH doesn't crossover between cabs unless you wire them that way. You could also wire a crossover between the two cabinents. "Full Range" speaker is a marketing term. It may be able to reproduce a broad spectrum of frequencies, but some will be reproduced more clearly depending on the speaker size and design.

 

[mbelue]

If the size of a speaker had anything to do with "speed" the then 10's would be sharp and 15" s would be flat.
Think dude, just a little.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Then why are we not all playing through 6" speakers? They would be easier to move around and take less power to drive.
No, tone is affected by the speaker size, among other things. 18s are used for subwoofers, why not 2 or 3 hundred 4" speakers instead? The problem with them for other than really low notes is the voice coil travel distance and time. It can't move fast enought to respond to higher frequencies. That gives them a floupy sound. 15s are a reasonable compromise for lows because they will not be as floupy and respond better to the middle of the bass range. You will get a full round sound, but may not have the highs you need. The smaller the speaker, the better the resonse to high frequencies and the worse the response to low frequecies.
And my experience goes back 51 years, so I think I've played enough different rigs to have a valid opinion.

I guess in addition to never knowing about Acme cabs, you are also not knowledgeable about Phil Jones cabs either.

Also - 51 years "experience" means absolutely nothing. I'll take my advice from the guys that engineer, design, and build the stuff - not anecdotal tales.

 

[snarebear]

Just find a 4 ohm 4 10 cab to your liking and that should be enough volume. Bag End cabs are efficient and reasonably priced and I highly recommend them ( I am not a paid endorser, I just play one on tv).

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I guess in addition to never knowing about Acme cabs, you are also not knowledgeable about Phil Jones cabs either.

Also - 51 years "experience" means absolutely nothing. I'll take my advice from the guys that engineer, design, and build the stuff - not anecdotal tales.

Who said I know nothing about them, other than you? Oh, and those engineer guys? If you're out of diapers yet you would know they were wrong about the difference in sound between tube and solid state amps, too. I certainly listen to what they have to say, but I always go by what my ears tell me. They say it sound fine.
How about if we both just shut up and let the OP make his decision? We have said our pieces and any more of this will only confuse.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Just find a 4 ohm 4 10 cab to your liking and that should be enough volume. Bag End cabs are efficient and reasonably priced and I highly recommend them ( I am not a paid endorser, I just play one on tv).

Actually, the difference in output between an 8 ohm cab and it's 4 ohm counterpart are very small.

Even if your amp doubled it's output going 8 ohm to 4 ohm (which most amps don't), it would only be an increase of +3db.

Displacement and speaker surface area trump wattage when trying to get louder.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Who said I know nothing about them, other than you? Oh, and those engineer guys? If you're out of diapers yet you would know they were wrong about the difference in sound between tube and solid state amps, too. I certainly listen to what they have to say, but I always go by what my ears tell me. They say it sound fine.
How about if we both just shut up and let the OP make his decision? We have said our pieces and any more of this will only confuse.

I'll stop with my advice as soon as one of the "non-science" crowd can find a commercially available 1X15 cab that can match the sensitivity and displacement of a 4X10.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I'll stop with my advice as soon as one of the "non-science" crowd can find a commercially available 1X15 cab that can match the sensitivity and displacement of a 4X10.

You have given your advice. I have given mine. Time to let it go.

 

[Thunder4]

Actually, the difference in output between an 8 ohm cab and it's 4 ohm counterpart are very small.

Even if your amp doubled it's output going 8 ohm to 4 ohm (which most amps don't), it would only be an increase of +3db.

Displacement and speaker surface area trump wattage when trying to get louder.

Exactly what I was thinking, I tried out a 410HLF (4 Ohms) with the B2RE. It didn't seem much louder than the 410HE (8 Ohms). And too loose / boomy for my tastes.

 

[carl h.]

The SVT classic 410HE is best paired with another of the same. I have a pair of the 410HE cabs, a 410HLF and an SVT Classic 15e. The 15 is great stand alone but not a great match for either 410, power handling incompatibilities make it risky to mix the 15 with either 410 as you will most likely blow the 15 before a 410 gets going. Sound wise the driver size has almost nothing to do with "fattening" or "quick" response, it is the design of the whole package. The HLF is far bassier than the 15. The 410HE has a horn and an advertised usable frequency response of 60Hz-18kHz while the range of the 15E is 50Hz-3kHz. It isn't the 10hz on the bottom you hear, but the additional 15K on top that makes you think of one as warmer and having more bottom - it really doesn't, it has less top.

There is math involved which explains the reality of the situation we hear with our ears. The two aren't incompatible, but the lack of lack of understanding may make it seem other than the way it is. Application based on false understanding can sound OK if you use things a certain way (not driving things near the limit) but if you push, things may get expensive and unsatisfying.