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ampeg fear...

O

ollybarclay

Dec 14, 2005
177
0
#1
so, couple of things..

i'm running an ampeg svt 4 pro with ampeg 610 cabinet mono bridged with the supplied speakon that's got a 'mono bridged' rubber label on the cable - so it's not the fact my speakon is incorrectly wired. everything else is connected correct too...

problem is, i'm HAVING to CRANK the gain to just below peak (as you're 'meant' to do) but ALSO having to crank the master to about 3 o'clock to be even remotely heard over my drummer, if i didn't have the sansamp i'd be more screwed than...something that's really screwed..

now, having just got back from tour with a band where the bassplayer uses a mesa m-pulse 600 thru the same cabinet and gets a LOUD as F**K punchy sound, i have to say i felt thoroughly underwhelmed with my rig.

so much so that i tried using a single power amp with a regular speaker cable and although still nowhere near what i wanted was a bit more convincing

anyone got any ideas what could be wrong? given the expense we're talking here i'd love to know it was something that i'm doing wrong / could be repaired if anything's bust.

head bought new in december 05
cabinet new in march 06

any help MUCH appreciated!!
 
#2
Sounds like either your speakon cable is wired wrong (i know, it has a label on it) or you are pushing way too much low and & scooping out most of your mids, which is where the meat of the bass guitars volume & tone resides.
 
#3
yes, what 8mm said. There are many, many variables here. What type of sound are you going for and how were you eq'd?

How were you eq'd on you bass too? Is it active?
 
#4
perhaps you're right:
-15dB pressed in
bass about 3oclock
midrange about 1oclock (so there's plenty mids)
mid selector 4
treble about 9oclock

into sansamp for a bit of drive

to be honest though, the reason for it being effectively really quiet because of driving too much bass sounds ridiculous... :S

the guitar is active, bass is half way up, treble max, tone max.
 
#5
Well, for one thing, try leaving the pad (-15db) switch out. That is eating up a serious amount of your volume right there. Most of the time, even with active basses, you can leave the pad off...it's only when you come across a bass that is so bloody hot that you wind up hitting the 'peak' light when the gain is set to 1 or 2 that you need to use the pad.

It took me years to finally come around to the concept that if my rig sounds 'right' to me on stage, it's going to be boomy and or muddy out in the room. An old bass playing friend told me over and over that in order to sound tight and clear out in the room, it had to sound 'thin' on stage. He was right. It will take you a while to 1)accept this, and 2)adjust your ear to where 'thin' sounds right.

It will be worth it, though.

Kim
 
#6
im having the EXACT same problem with my rig. B4R into ampeg 6x10. gain at like 5 and master all the way down. Are ampegs severley underpowered?> ive checked all the stuff out you guys are saying. Apprently 1000 watts isnt what it used to be. Im thinking of trading mine in, cuz a guy in a band that isnt ear shaterringly loud like mine mine be able to use this amp.
 
#7
ollybarclay said:
perhaps you're right:
-15dB pressed in
bass about 3oclock
midrange about 1oclock (so there's plenty mids)
mid selector 4
treble about 9oclock

into sansamp for a bit of drive

to be honest though, the reason for it being effectively really quiet because of driving too much bass sounds ridiculous... :S

the guitar is active, bass is half way up, treble max, tone max.
Click to expand...

You're boosting every EQ knob you have except your amp's treble? Try and set your bass a little more flat and disengage the input pad. That might do the trick.
 
#8
hyperlitem said:
im having the EXACT same problem with my rig. B4R into ampeg 6x10. gain at like 5 and master all the way down. Are ampegs severley underpowered?> ive checked all the stuff out you guys are saying. Apprently 1000 watts isnt what it used to be. Im thinking of trading mine in, cuz a guy in a band that isnt ear shaterringly loud like mine mine be able to use this amp.
Click to expand...

In my experiences, Ampeg rates their stuff very liberally. I just swapped my Ampeg 350h for a Hartke 3500 and also bought a Trace Elliot SMX350(I think is the right model) head, both are rated @ 350watts, and both smoke the the Ampeg in terms of loudness:bassist: . Where I used to have the Ampeg master volume cranked and still couldn't be heard, I haven't had the Trace past 3 and I am louder than 2 screaming guitar 4x12 cabs. If you like the Ampeg sound, then stick with the Ampeg and get a good power amp to go with it. For me, I wanted a little bit more of a modern punchy tone that I couldn't coax out of the Ampeg. But yes, Ampeg heads are underpowered......:bawl:
 
#9
As you can see by my sig, I have the same set-up as you. I also, am having the same problem as you. I would agree with just about all the suggestions here, or you could just trade it all in for Aguilar stuff like I'm doing...:D
 
#10
Daywalker said:
As you can see by my sig, I have the same set-up as you. I also, am having the same problem as you. I would agree with just about all the suggestions here, or you could just trade it all in for Aguilar stuff like I'm doing...:D
Click to expand...

great! :crying:

if i have to play that particular game, i'll be looking at some of the mesa stuff..:D
 
#14
Daywalker said:
As you can see by my sig, I have the same set-up as you. I also, am having the same problem as you. I would agree with just about all the suggestions here, or you could just trade it all in for Aguilar stuff like I'm doing...:D
Click to expand...

+1
I had the same problem with my SVT-4pro and I replaced it with an Aggie DB750 and ....................... my God, what an amp!! :hyper:

J.
 
#15
ollybarclay said:
perhaps you're right:
-15dB pressed in
bass about 3oclock
midrange about 1oclock (so there's plenty mids)
mid selector 4
treble about 9oclock

into sansamp for a bit of drive

to be honest though, the reason for it being effectively really quiet because of driving too much bass sounds ridiculous... :S

the guitar is active, bass is half way up, treble max, tone max.
Click to expand...

You didn't mention the "ultra-low".... is it on or off?

If the cable is messed up, you could have been using only one amp.......

As for the bass thing, nope, not ridiculous.........

Low end doesn't carry well.
Low end takes relatively way more power to get as loud as mids.
You don't HEAR low end as well as mids
Lows leak out of the room everywhere, thru wood floors, walls, ceilings, doors...

So, cranking the lows ends up using most of your power to try to fill the place with fundamental, which is a losing proposition anyway since they leak out of the room all over.

Having all that EQ on the lows may be trying to get 12 or 15 dB more out in the lows than the mids. That means you are putting maybe 16 times more power into the low lows than into the rest of the sound.....

It should be pretty obvious that will re-balance your sound well into the harder-to-hear "mud range".

The -15 dB isn't helping any either, it just lowers your volume and forces you to dime everything.

If everything is correct, you should have guitarists weeping and small animals dropping dead out in front of you with that setup.

Engage "mono". Use a cable wired 1+2+ at the amp end and 1+ 1- at the speaker end, plugged into the mono output. plug cable into 4 ohm cabinet...... result 1200W (rms) capability.

As far as "liberal ratings", if that means we "add a few watts for luck", I happen to know that ain't quite right.... if we say it, it does it.

I think we just give you too many EQ options....... :D
 
#16
RE: Mr. Tiers

That's one thing that has baffled me throughout my bass playing years. Why do all(just about) bass amps have an untra-low button if all it does is screw up your sound? I mean, I LOVE the tone with it in, but it just messes up the works when I crank it. Are there any amps out there that can be safely pushed loudly with the low boost on? How do I get that moderate sound I love to stay the same at high volumes? Is it even possible?
 
#18
Daywalker said:
RE: Mr. Tiers

That's one thing that has baffled me throughout my bass playing years. Why do all(just about) bass amps have an untra-low button if all it does is screw up your sound? I mean, I LOVE the tone with it in, but it just messes up the works when I crank it. Are there any amps out there that can be safely pushed loudly with the low boost on? How do I get that moderate sound I love to stay the same at high volumes? Is it even possible?
Click to expand...

If you have the power and the speakers for it, the switch can be used loud. BTW, you don't.....

Otherwise it is good for different things.... can sound awesome for quieter jazz etc (and crappy, too, depends). Something where you want the lows and can deal with less power left over.

Not every button is good all the time....... But the new rule seems to be "everything not forbidden is compulsory"!
 
#20
ollybarclay said:
to be honest though, the reason for it being effectively really quiet because of driving too much bass sounds ridiculous... :S
Click to expand...


Well that simply shows your inexperience with bass amps ;)

but Jerrold explained this pretty well in his first post so I won't elaborate.

FYI, its pretty easy to scoop out all your mids with a sansamp pedal as well. The ultra low pushed in on the amp, the sansamp with the blend knob turned up. Its a recipe for mud. OTOH, with the 4 pro dialed in properly and the sansamp dialed in properly, that combination sounds badass.

Just curious, do you have the sansamp in the fx loop or on the front end?

One of the things that I dont like about the 4 pro is there are so many options that it can be difficult trying to dial in a good sound from scratch. You guys trading in for Aguilars, I can understand that, its a different sounding amp and probably suits your style better. But the notion of the 4 pro being underpowerwered is laughable.
 

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