Ampeg Stack Recommendations? Ampeg SVT212AV vs Ampeg SVT410HLF

[xagepage]

Hi all! Long-time lurker, first time poster here. I’m looking to purchase another cabinet for my rig but am currently torn. My current setup looks like this:

- 1975 Fender P-Bass
- Sunn Coliseum 300
- Ampeg SVT212AV
- Dream Reaper Pedal

I’m looking to either buy a second 2x12 or to stack the one I currently have with a 4x10, primarily the Heritage series SVT410HLF. Have heard a lot/worried a bit about the overt boominess/scooped sound that comes from the 4x10, but am wondering if stacking it with my 2x12 would make for a better combo than 2 2x12s?

Have been looking for a little more low-end anyways, but don’t want too much! Mostly just trying to raise my current volume and make the most out of the Coliseum 300 and its 2-ohm capabilities. Also, context: nowadays I tend to play heavier music that errs on the noisy/sludgy/aggressive side, but still also like to flirt with styles outside of that. Any thoughts/anecdotes/comments would be greatly appreciated!

 

[sharkbait130]

I like the sound of the 2 12's better than I like the 4 10's although I hear the newer 4 10'a are not as boomy as they used to be. I haven't heard any of the new ones so I can't confirm or deny that statement. I've been playing a 2 12 for a while now after playing 8 10's for years and have no problems with the sound of the 2 12 at all.
Like so many other things on T.B. this is simply a matter of my own tastes in sound. YMMV but if you are asking for my opinion , I'm going with another 2 12.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Adding another 2x12av will prevent you from dealing with odd eqing of the two differently voiced cabs and adding the second cab will give you more lowend.

Having that tall vertical stack of 12's will get a speaker near your ear where you will hear more of the mids and highs, but your added lowend will be there.
The vertical stack will also give better side to side dispersion of them mids and highs allowing you to still hear them when you step more than five feet to the side of your cabs.

 

[Wasnex]

Hi all! Long-time lurker, first time poster here. I’m looking to purchase another cabinet for my rig but am currently torn. My current setup looks like this:

- 1975 Fender P-Bass
- Sunn Coliseum 300
- Ampeg SVT212AV
- Dream Reaper Pedal

I’m looking to either buy a second 2x12 or to stack the one I currently have with a 4x10, primarily the Heritage series SVT410HLF. Have heard a lot/worried a bit about the overt boominess/scooped sound that comes from the 4x10, but am wondering if stacking it with my 2x12 would make for a better combo than 2 2x12s?

Have been looking for a little more low-end anyways, but don’t want too much! Mostly just trying to raise my current volume and make the most out of the Coliseum 300 and its 2-ohm capabilities. Also, context: nowadays I tend to play heavier music that errs on the noisy/sludgy/aggressive side, but still also like to flirt with styles outside of that. Any thoughts/anecdotes/comments would be greatly appreciated!

If you have an SVT212AV and like the sound, the safe bet is to get a second SVT212AV. Two matching cabs are guaranteed to play well together.

My impression is the SVT212AV is designed to sort of emulate the sound of a sealed cab. In contrast, the SVT401HLF embraces the idea of being ported. The impression I get is this cab has extended lows and is a bit scooped sounding. A lot of people complain that it sounds boomy and is hard to dial in. I think because the tuning is so different, there is a good chance it will not pair well with the SVT212AV, but the only way to know for sure is to try it.

If you do a search, you should find lot's of threads that discuss mixing driver size. IMHO the problem is not so much in mixing driver size but in mixing incompatible tunings. Cabs with different size drivers can actually be designed to work together, but it takes a skilled designed.

Why the tuning matters. At higher frequencies a ported cab behaves pretty much like a sealed cab. At some frequency, probably around 100hz or so, the driver(s) will start to roll off, and the port is tuned to start becoming active so that it reinforces and extends the low end response. I.E. the port starts taking over and producing sound as the driver(s) start to cut off.

The frequency the port is tuned to is called Fb. At Fb most of the cabs output is coming from the port and the resonance of the system suppresses the movement of the speakers. Essentially the port is out of phase with the driver.

Across the range where the port is active, the system has phase shift and group delay. A different tuning will have different amounts of phase shift and group delay. These variances in phase shift and group delay cause the two systems to fight rather than work together.

So even two cabs with the same size drivers can be a bad choice if they have incompatible tunings. I.E. it's not really about driver size.

Also just because a company makes cabs that stack and look great together, does not mean they put the engineering into the cabs to ensure they play well together. Some companies do, and some companies don't.

 

[SpottedBass]

similar situation here - I have a v4b / svt212AV rig and an Ashdown ABM 600 / Eden D212XLT rig. Was thinking of playing a show using the V4B and both cabs (@2 ohms), but the Ampeg cab does not go as deep as the Eden. If I knew I can get more low end from a pair of SVT212AVs, that would look nice with the V4B, but how would that work? Wont two cabs just be louder with the same 70hz rolloff?

 

[Wasnex]

similar situation here - I have a v4b / svt212AV rig and an Ashdown ABM 600 / Eden D212XLT rig. Was thinking of playing a show using the V4B and both cabs (@2 ohms), but the Ampeg cab does not go as deep as the Eden. If I knew I can get more low end from a pair of SVT212AVs, that would look nice with the V4B, but how would that work? Wont two cabs just be louder with the same 70hz rolloff?

When you add identical cabs the couple acoustically at frequencies where driving spacing is within approximately 1/4 wavelength. Wavelength is inversely proportional to frequency, so this means you get a perceived bass boost and the low end extension will go slightly deeper.

IMHO, a lot of our perception of fat bass is actually between about 70hz and 140hz; so a pair of pretty much any cabs is going to sound fuller and more bassy than one cab.

The Eden D212XLT's low end extends to 40hz +/- 2db. I would expect this cab to sound significantly different than an SVT212AV; it won't necessary be thicker sounding though. IMHO choose the one you like and get another, assuming your amp supports the resulting load.

 

[G On Bass]

At a rehearsal studio we use, 2 of the rooms have V-4B heads, with one room having a 212AV and the other a 410HLF. To me, I prefer the 212AV as it seems easier for me to dial in. YMMV.

My ears don't do math, so I don't have any fancy math numbers to back anything up, but I have always been happy with the 212AV. Were I to add another cab to it, I would do another 212AV or maybe even a 112AV (I have 2).

 

[Slpbass81]

I have used my 212AV for 1000+ gigs with my SVT-CL and absolutely love it. I am keeping an eye out for another used one locally when I'm too lazy to bring my 8x10 out.

 

[xagepage]

update:

well y’all i ended up getting another svt212av and so far it’s been treating me well, have yet to use it in the context of rehearsal but so far it’s looking & sounding great!

 

[AlexanderB]

The SVT-410HLF is a more demanding cab. It might sound loose and wooly in the lows with a weaker SS and any tube amp. The extended low end will also reveal inconsistent and/or sloppy technique in the lows, string muting technique and so on. The SVT-212 is easiet to get going, and "easier to live with", but I personally strongly prefer the SVT-410HLF.

 

[GreyBeard]

4x12's will move some serious air.