• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Ampeg SVT 6 Pro + SVT 410HLF questions

PHILTHYinNC

PHILTHYinNC

Guest
Mar 21, 2016
44
50
ELIZABETH (ROCK) CITY NORTH CAROLINA
#1
I currently own a Made In USA Ampeg SVT 6 Pro and SVT 410HLF. I love the sound of this rig, but I've only used it in pretty small venues or in conjunction with a SanAmp Bass DI to the PA.

The amp is rated at 750 watts into 8 ohms and 1100 into 4 ohms. The HLF is a 4 ohm cabinet rated at 500 watts. I'm careful with the volume on the amp and so far, the volume has been adequate.

I'm auditioning for a metal band next week. I'm really looking forward to this. I spoke to the guitar player at length about goals for the project and other general stuff. During the conversation, he revealed that he's playing a 200 watt Marshall head into a 412 cab. I'm thinking about adding another 410HLF in an effort to be heard.

I use a Speakon cable between head and cabinet. There is only one Speakon port on the amp. If I add another cabinet, it would be daisy chained using a Speakon cable from one HLF to the other. The owner's manual says the two Speakon jacks on the HLF are in parallel. This leads me to believe that adding another HLF in this manner will result in a 2 ohm load, which seems like a great way to release the magic smoke from the 6 Pro. This would certainly add to my "stage presence", but I suspect it would degrade my sound, if only slightly. :D

There isn't a wiring diagram in the HLF owner's manual. If there was, I could answer my own questions, but does the parallel arrangement of the two Speakon ports on the HLF result in two cabinets being in parallel when daisy chained or will the daisy chained cabs be in series? Hopefully, this is the case.

If the daisy chained cabs are in series, resulting in an 8 ohm load, the 6 Pro will then have an output of 750 watts. I'll be able to increase the gain, while still being mindful of exceeding the 500 watt rating of the HLFs. Will this result in significantly greater volume?

Thanks in advance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatSquare
#2
Just about any way you hook up two 4 ohm cabs to the pro 6 will result in a parallel connection at 2 ohms. Both daisy chaining and hooking up cabs from any two ports in the amp will end up with a 2 ohm load (magic smoke time.) All of the outputs on the amp , both speakon and 1/4" are wired in parallel.The only way to get an 8 ohm set up with two 4 ohm cabs is to use a special series connector cable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bass_Pounder
#3
sharkbait130 said:
Just about any way you hook up two 4 ohm cabs to the pro 6 will result in a parallel connection at 2 ohms. Both daisy chaining and hooking up cabs from any two ports in the amp will end up with a 2 ohm load (magic smoke time.) All of the outputs on the amp , both speakon and 1/4" are wired in parallel.The only way to get an 8 ohm set up with two 4 ohm cabs is to use a special series connector cable.
Click to expand...

Maybe I didn't word my post clearly. There is only one Speakon connection on the Pro 6. There are two 1/4 inch connections and I understand how hooking two cabinets (one to each 1/4 inch port) would be a parallel set up, but I don't see how a single Speakon connection can be in parallel with itself. The HLF cabinet has two Speakon connectors. The owner's manual for the HLF cab says two cabs can be daisy chained together. So, it would be a single Speakon cable from the Pro 6 to the first HLF cab. I would then connect a second Speakon cable between the first HLF into the second HLF.

Here's the back of the Pro 6. You can see there is only one Speakon port, rated at 750W into 8 ohms/1100W into 4 ohms:

Invalid Link Removed

Here's the back of the HLF cab. There are two Speakon ports. The owner's manual says that I can plug a cable into either Speakon port from my amp. I can then plug another Speakon cable into the other port and connect it to another cabinet:

Invalid Link Removed

Here's a diagram showing the set up I'm talking about, but with a 610HLF. It is also a 4 ohm cabinet. In the diagram, either a single Speakon or 1/4 inch cable goes from the amp to the first cabinet. A second 1/4 inch or Speakon cable is then used to make a connection from one cabinet to the other:

Invalid Link Removed

The HLF cabinet owner's manual says that the two Speakon ports (and the 1/4 inch) are wired in parallel. However, the term "daisy chain" usually refers to components connected or wired in series. From looking at the diagram above, my guess is that the speakers are in series, resulting in an 8 ohm load. I doubt even Ampeg would suggest a set up that results in a 2 ohm load, but when I read in the cabinet manual that the two Speakon ports are wired in parallel, I'm a bit hesitant to experiment. If I had access to another 4 ohm Ampeg cab, I'd daisy chain 'em and use an ohm meter to measure, but I don't have access to another 4 ohm cab.

Here's what the owner's manual says (I put the pertinent parts in "bold"):

"The Speakon ® and 1/4" jacks are wired in parallel, allowing easy daisy chaining from one speaker to another. Each of the jacks may be used as an input or a through connection. Speakon® connectors are recognized as the standard for professional installations, assuring a secure, permanent connection that won't corrode, vibrate loose or be easily tampered with. The 1/4" jacks are convenient. However, the Speakon® jacks are recommended when using power amplifiers over 150 watts, for permanent installations, or for the "first" speaker among a number of daisy chained speakers."

The first "bold" section says the connectors on the speaker are in parallel, but the second "bold" section refers to the "first" speaker in a daisy chain. There wouldn't be a "first" speaker in a parallel circuit.

I'm still confused and a bit hesitant to a) spend money on a cabinet that may not work and b) embark on a an experiment that may leave me with the smoking hulk of a previously useful amp. :crying:

I saw a post in another thread about building the cable you refer to, but the link to the schematic was dead.
 
#4
All of the outputs on the back of the amp are wired in parallel. It doesn't matter if it is the speakons or the 1/4". One speakon and one 1/4' are still going to be in parallel. Any way you connect two 4 ohm cabs other than a special series wire will be in parallel and give you a 2 ohm load.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carsbybigd
#5
sharkbait130 said:
All of the outputs on the back of the amp are wired in parallel. It doesn't matter if it is the speakons or the 1/4". One speakon and one 1/4' are still going to be in parallel. Any way you connect two 4 ohm cabs other than a special series wire will be in parallel and give you a 2 ohm load.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with what you just wrote. However, what you wrote isn't the configuration I'm talking about. There will one, and only one cable coming out of the amp. In my case, I will be using a single Speakon cable out of the amp. The 1/4 ports will not be used at all. The other end of the single Speakon cable will be connected to one of the two Speakon ports on the first cabinet. Let's call it Cab A. From Cab A, I will then install a second Speakon cable. The other end of that cable will then go to the second cabinet (Cab B) Cab B will ONLY be connected to Cab A.

The diagram I posted shows an "either/or" situation, as in using either a single Speakon cable out of the 6 Pro or a single 1/4 inch cable out of the 6 Pro to Cab A. A single Speakon or 1/4 inch cable is then used to connect Cab A to Cab B.

I'm not talkng about using a Speakon cable from the amp to Cab A and a 1/4 inch cable from the amp to Cab B. That would definitely be parallel and not a good idea.

As far as I know, a single port of any kind can't be in parallel with itself. There is only one Speakon port on the amp. How can this port be in parallel with itself?

The parallel uncertainly lies within the HLF cabinet, or more specifically, the owner's manual for the cabinet. There are two Speakon ports on the cabinet. The owner's manual for the cabinet states they are used to daisy chain an additional cabinet. In my experience, when the term "daisy chain" means components (in this case, speaker cabinets) are arranged in series.

The only thing that's throwing me off is the speaker cabinet owner's manual stating the two Speakon ports on the cab are wired in parallel, as are the two 1/4 inch ports on the cabinet.
 
#7
As stated, the connectors on your amp, as well as your cab, are parallel.

On a side note, this type of predicament gives praise to some old Sunn cabs that had parallel and series sockets on the cab, what a cool feature.

You need to make a series cable to run two 4 ohm cabs, no biggie to make one with quality speakon connectors.

I also agree that you likely won't need two cabs to "be heard". You certainly have enough IMO.:thumbsup:
 
#8
makanudo said:
Rehearse with the band first. Just because he has that power it doesn't mean he has to blast all of it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm just having flashbacks to when I had a Peavey T-Max (which had a frequency crossover for running mixed cabs) driving a 210 with tweeter and a 115 with tweeter. Our guitar player had a 100 watt Marshall driving a 412 cab as the gig or practice progressed, he'd get louder and louder and after a point, I couldn't keep up. We weren't mic'ing anything back then. All we had was a four channel PA. Finally, the drummer and I started setting his amp level and putting a piece of tape marking the volume "limit" on his amp.
 
#9
BasturdBlaster said:
As stated, the connectors on your amp, as well as your cab, are parallel.

On a side note, this type of predicament gives praise to some old Sunn cabs that had parallel and series sockets on the cab, what a cool feature.

You need to make a series cable to run two 4 ohm cabs, no biggie to make one with quality speakon connectors.

I also agree that you likely won't need two cabs to "be heard". You certainly have enough IMO.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

So, based on the diagram I posted, Ampeg is showing a configuration that may destroy the amp. There is zero mention in my 6 Pro owner's manual of load, other than the 750W at 8 ohms, etc. No warning, no nothing.
 
#10
PHILTHYinNC said:
Agreed. I'm just having flashbacks to when I had a Peavey T-Max (which had a frequency crossover for running mixed cabs) driving a 210 with tweeter and a 115 with tweeter. Our guitar player had a 100 watt Marshall driving a 412 cab as the gig or practice progressed, he'd get louder and louder and after a point, I couldn't keep up. We weren't mic'ing anything back then. All we had was a four channel PA. Finally, the drummer and I started setting his amp level and putting a piece of tape marking the volume "limit" on his amp.
Click to expand...

If the durm's aren't mic'd and you can't hear the kick drum I like to use it as a limit. There is no need to get louder than an acoustic drumset. Even for metal, it's a rehearsal not a stadium gig. But you're stepping into m3t0l gu1tard territory and I'm in a band with 3 so good luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: PHILTHYinNC and BasturdBlaster
#11
Look close at the speaker outputs of your SVT6, it likely reads "4 ohm minimum load". Some ampegs (svt4) are 2 ohm minimum load, then you actually could "daisy-chain" two 4 ohm cabs, though I still likely wouldn't do it, let's face it, that's asking a lot of an amp.

There probably should be a note and or warning in the manual for the cab stating that daisy chaining two 4 ohm cabs is a risky deal for even amps that are rated for 2 ohms.

By the way, that's an awesome rig, I'm jealous!drool
 
  • Like
Reactions: PHILTHYinNC
#12
PHILTHYinNC said:
I totally agree with what you just wrote. However, what you wrote isn't the configuration I'm talking about. There will one, and only one cable coming out of the amp. In my case, I will be using a single Speakon cable out of the amp. The 1/4 ports will not be used at all. The other end of the single Speakon cable will be connected to one of the two Speakon ports on the first cabinet. Let's call it Cab A. From Cab A, I will then install a second Speakon cable. The other end of that cable will then go to the second cabinet (Cab B) Cab B will ONLY be connected to Cab A.

The diagram I posted shows an "either/or" situation, as in using either a single Speakon cable out of the 6 Pro or a single 1/4 inch cable out of the 6 Pro to Cab A. A single Speakon or 1/4 inch cable is then used to connect Cab A to Cab B.

I'm not talkng about using a Speakon cable from the amp to Cab A and a 1/4 inch cable from the amp to Cab B. That would definitely be parallel and not a good idea.

As far as I know, a single port of any kind can't be in parallel with itself. There is only one Speakon port on the amp. How can this port be in parallel with itself?

The parallel uncertainly lies within the HLF cabinet, or more specifically, the owner's manual for the cabinet. There are two Speakon ports on the cabinet. The owner's manual for the cabinet states they are used to daisy chain an additional cabinet. In my experience, when the term "daisy chain" means components (in this case, speaker cabinets) are arranged in series.

The only thing that's throwing me off is the speaker cabinet owner's manual stating the two Speakon ports on the cab are wired in parallel, as are the two 1/4 inch ports on the cabinet.
Click to expand...


The cabs are wired in parallel also. Speakon to cab A is your 4 ohm load , then going from cab A to cab B with another speakon will take you down to a 2 ohm load because the cabs are also wired in parallel.
Any time you take two 4 ohm cabs and daisy chain them , it will result in a 2 ohm load unless you use the special series connector to hook them together. Only by using the series connector will it run an 8 ohm load. If I'm not mistaken , I think you can buy a series connector from most good music stores.
 
#13
Well, I got smarter today! (Some would say that isn't hard to do, lol.)

All of you guys were absolutely correct. Sorry if I appeared stubborn, but the use of the term "daisy chain" was a bit confusing to me when combined with the term "parallel". I work in avionics (aircraft electronics). Usually when I hear he term "daisy chaining", it's in reference to a series circuit. However, when Ampeg is referring to "daisy chaining" cabinets, they are only referring to the PHYSICAL connection between the cabinets. ELECTRICALLY, two cabs daisy chained together create a parallel circuit. However, the circuit from the amp to the first cab is in series. As far as the amp is concerned, it "sees" the two cabs as one cab with the impedance of the two cabs in parallel.

So now I have another question. My cab is rated at 500W at 4 ohms. My amp makes 1100W at 4 ohms. I've been careful with volume levels ever since I got the amp. Other than audible distortion, how do I know when I'm getting close to damaging gain levels? My rule of thumb so far is to plug in the bass, power up the amp with the Master Volume at 0 (zero). I wait about 10 minutes to let the tubes get warm then adjust the pre-amp gain per the manual. I then use the Master gain to set the volume. So far, I've kept the Master gain at 5 or less. If the Master gain is linear, then I should be around 550 watts. I don't always play at that volume, but it definitely doesn't sound like any damage is being done. Am I being too cautious, or am I cranking it too much?

Thanks for all the repsonses.
 
#14
BasturdBlaster said:
Look close at the speaker outputs of your SVT6, it likely reads "4 ohm minimum load". Some ampegs (svt4) are 2 ohm minimum load, then you actually could "daisy-chain" two 4 ohm cabs, though I still likely wouldn't do it, let's face it, that's asking a lot of an amp.

There probably should be a note and or warning in the manual for the cab stating that daisy chaining two 4 ohm cabs is a risky deal for even amps that are rated for 2 ohms.

By the way, that's an awesome rig, I'm jealous!drool
Click to expand...

It is a 4 ohm minimum.
 
#15
The Ampeg SVT-410HLF (at least the recent MIC cabs) will typically sound distressed aka "farting out" loudly before any damage happens to the transducers. I have used my cab with one channel from a QSC PLX 1804 (900W @4 Ohms) hitting the limits of the cab briefly a couple of times. That was with a four string with a bit of boost in the 40 Hz region (far deeper than most bass amps have the center frequency of the bass control.) There is absolutely no indication of damage of any kind to the drivers.

Having about 5-600 real Watts per cab is probably best for most users, as you will be close to the full capacity of the cab without running into over excursion risks. I regularly use my cab with an EMG loaded five string (= truckloads of fundamental) combined with a tad of bass boost on my LMII as loud as it will go cleanly. No problems, ever.
 
#16
Just because the guitar player is using a 200 watt Marshal doesn't mean you won't be heard. You are still running more than twice as much power as he is. There is no reason to be excessively loud just because its a metal band. Playing to loud will drive an audience out of a venue. I used a 6 Pro with a 410HLF for several years. You cannot add another cab or you will get a 2 ohm load. Your options are to switch to 2 SVT 410HE cabs, one SVT 610 or one SVT 810.
 
#20
I guess many posters miss the point of cabinet sensitivity here - it is low in the SVT-410HLF cab. It takes two or three times the "normal" amplification to keep up with a typical bass cab, that lacks the deep bass extension provided by the HLF.

Creating deep bass to a certain SPL will require very large cabinets or very powerful amplification. See Hoffman's iron law.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back