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an odd trade offer - does this make sense?

Argali

Argali

Aug 19, 2008
389
222
49
Portland, OR
#1
I have a Fender Twin that I've been trying to sell for a while, an "Evil Twin" model from the '90s, all tube (one of these.) I play both guitar and bass and I was hoping to sell or trade this to finance a new bass rig. I have an offer to do a trade for an Eden Traveler 550 head and a Tech 4x12 cab. I know next to nothing about Tech cabs, beyond that they're the precursor to Tec cabs. The value of Fender Twins is extremely fluid, as they've put out new reissues that have driven the value of older models down a bit. Plus, those who are in the market for a used Twin don't necessarily want the Evil Twin model.

So, any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I'm mostly a metal and post-rock player if that matters.
 
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#2
AFAIK the Evil Twin refers to the red knob twin. Here's one listed for $500 plugs $100 shipping. There's another one listed for $300 w/local pick up only. I never had the impression that these ever pulled a high price on the used market.


The Eden WT500 is pretty well respect head. Check the Reverb listings are $475 + $70 shipping and $750 +$150 shipping for an anniversary model. Ebay has listings ranging in price from $475 + $32 shipping to $899 + $110 shipping.


I don't know anything about the Tech 412. I did some Googling and found a model, CT4000C. If this is the cab:
020-jpg.jpg


maybe @sunbeast can comment. See ad: SOLD - FS: Tech Soundsystems 4x12 Cabinet (Schroeder predecessor) in Oregon...

It sounds like you may be getting the better end of the bargain. But it really depends somewhat on the personal value you place on the Evil Twin. Personal value only matters to you.
 
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#3
Did the seller mean a Tech 21 Trademark 412? If so, that's a guitar cabinet that I wouldn't suggest for bass.
If it's a Tech Soundsystems as @Wasnex indicated, there are some positive users, and I'd look into it.
Tech 412 info please | TalkBass.com

The Eden WT500 "Highwayman" and WT550 "Traveler" are rather different amps, even though they share heritage and EQ set. The 500 is a full rack width while the 550 is a significantly smaller package. The 500 consists of two 250 watt amplifiers that could be run in stereo or biamp mode or bridged mono to 600 watts, while the 550 is a single 550 watts @ 4 ohms amp. Myself, I would prefer the newer WT550.

WT 800-600-500 manual 2003 (edenamps.net)

WT550 manual 08/10/2005 (fullcompass.com)
 
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#4
Wasnex said:
AFAIK the Evil Twin refers to the red knob twin. Here's one listed for $500 plugs $100 shipping. There's another one listed for $300 w/local pick up only. I never had the impression that these ever pulled a high price on the used market.


The Eden WT500 is pretty well respect head. Check the Reverb listings are $475 + $70 shipping and $750 +$150 shipping for an anniversary model. Ebay has listings ranging in price from $475 + $32 shipping to $899 + $110 shipping.


I don't know anything about the Tech 412. I did some Googling and found a model, CT4000C. If this is the cab:
View attachment 4108782

maybe @sunbeast can comment. See ad: "fender evil twin" Gear | Reverb

It sounds like you may be getting the better end of the bargain. But it really depends somewhat on the personal value you place on the Evil Twin. Personal value only matters to you.
Click to expand...

This is why Fender amps can be maddening. They don't have serial numbers, and they keep the same name for broad variations within the same type of amp. The "Evil Twin" is actually not the Red Knob Twin - they're two very different amps. But even I have been guilty of conflating the two. The Evil was made after the Red Knob is one of Fender's most feature-laden amps. From that Ampwares page I linked:

"The amp above is what's known by amp guys as the ’94 twin’, in fact Fender used to call it that as well. It was part of the pro range designed by Paul Rivera before he did his own thing. The ’94 Twin’ is one of the most feature laden amps Fender ever produced, it has dual input, clean/gain and drive channels with switchable bright modes and presence control, full EQ controls for each channel, valve driven long spring reverb, valve buffered rack effects loop, pre out/power in loop, mono/stereo 4/8/16 ohm output with series/parallel switch.
The clean is pure blackface, the drive was aimed at early boogie territory."

$800-$900 used is a fair price for these. Here's what's on Reverb now:
SOLD - FS: Tech Soundsystems 4x12 Cabinet (Schroeder predecessor) in Oregon...
 
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#7
Argali said:
The "Evil Twin" is actually not the Red Knob Twin - they're two very different amps...The Evil was made after the Red Knob.

$800-$900 used is a fair price for these. Here's what's on Reverb now:
"fender evil twin" Gear | Reverb
Click to expand...


That may be official cannon, but people were calling the red knob amp the "Evil Twin" long before Fender decided to "officially" use the term with the 1995 model...my response was both :roflmao: and :rollno:.

Doesn't really matter...we are talking about the Fender "Twin Amp," which appears to carry a higher street price than the red knob.

If you assign a value of $250 to the Tech 412 and consider the range of prices WT550 list for, I think you are in the ballpark. Ultimately only you can decide if it's a good deal.

Can you try the bass rig? If it's in decent condition, produces sufficient volume, and has a good sound, you have a decision to make. If you find it lacking in any way, pass.
 
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#11
Wasnex said:
AFAIK the Evil Twin refers to the red knob twin. Here's one listed for $500 plugs $100 shipping. There's another one listed for $300 w/local pick up only. I never had the impression that these ever pulled a high price on the used market.


The Eden WT500 is pretty well respect head. Check the Reverb listings are $475 + $70 shipping and $750 +$150 shipping for an anniversary model. Ebay has listings ranging in price from $475 + $32 shipping to $899 + $110 shipping.


I don't know anything about the Tech 412. I did some Googling and found a model, CT4000C. If this is the cab:
View attachment 4108782

maybe @sunbeast can comment. See ad: SOLD - FS: Tech Soundsystems 4x12 Cabinet (Schroeder predecessor) in Oregon...

It sounds like you may be getting the better end of the bargain. But it really depends somewhat on the personal value you place on the Evil Twin. Personal value only matters to you.
Click to expand...
Argali said:
No - here's a pic of the rig:
Click to expand...
That Tech cab is a bit of an oddity- I liked mine alright tonally (it packed a punch for sure) and it was pretty compact and easy to roll around, but also quite heavy. If it’s like my old one, it’s only 8ohms too so wouldn’t get the full power from that amp (if it were 4 ohms I might still have it!). That’s a tough trade, as I think those particular Twins are super cool personally. If his amp and cab are in great shape then it may be worth it...
 
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#12
Tech Bassline and Tech Soundsystems cabs were designed by Thomas Eich in Germany and the company’s name was changed to TecAmp many years later. I play through TecAmp gear. :)
 

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#13
Argali said:
I have a Fender Twin that I've been trying to sell for a while, an "Evil Twin" model from the '90s, all tube (one of these.) I play both guitar and bass and I was hoping to sell or trade this to finance a new bass rig. I have an offer to do a trade for an Eden Traveler 550 head and a Tech 4x12 cab. I know next to nothing about Tech cabs, beyond that they're the precursor to Tec cabs. The value of Fender Twins is extremely fluid, as they've put out new reissues that have driven the value of older models down a bit. Plus, those who are in the market for a used Twin don't necessarily want the Evil Twin model.

So, any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I'm mostly a metal and post-rock player if that matters.
Click to expand...



They were called "Evil Twins" for a reason. Guitarists, such as myself hate them. The internal design was supposed to save manufacturing costs but warranty, sound and their reputation were affected.

They sucked.

Fender went back to older design for a reason. If I remember correctly, the pots were mounted to the printed board not the chassis.......not a great thing.
 
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#14
Ross W. Lovell said:
Fender went back to older design for a reason. If I remember correctly, the pots were mounted to the printed board not the chassis.......not a great thing.
Click to expand...

The current generic Fender tube amp "reissues" use PC board construction. A BL bought two recent Deluxes for use at a weekly jam session he runs and has issues with the board mounted pots on both of them. The circuits are the same as the 60s models, but they do not use turret boards. You have to go to the pricier higher end versions for that. At least they are still through hole boards on the tube amps.

This pic is of the 68 Princeton Reverb PC board set.

zbvtfgymbzbgsxg6mte4.jpg


Then again, he owns three vintage Supers, two blackface and one silverface and they have the usual problems of the tremelo and reverb circuits going south. They are easier to repair, though. That's the real secret of vinatge amps. Turret boards are so easy to work on, your dog could do it.

Here's a 1975 Princeton turret board. The jacks and pots are all bolted to the front panel, unlike today.

iv4rlxy7chngdtv39er0.jpg
 
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#15
I’d keep that twin over that trade no question. The Rivera Twin you talk about is actually a pretty good sounding amp if you treat it like any other twin. The gain stuff they added can be modded easily enough too, If you don’t like it but would rather not ignore it

When these amps got their “bad name” a lot of people liked to shun channel switching capabilities as harmful to tone, and you could grab a drip edge Silverface instead for a better price.

I wouldn’t also have to say I wouldn’t take the current circuit board 65 Twin reissue over the Rivera Twin by any means. The current reissue isn’t bad but still seems to have raised the value on the Made in USA Rivera Twins.
 
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#17
If you’ve been trying to sell the fender for a while, that should tell you something about it’s desirability and value. The Eden 550 is a good amp without any real quirks and a decent following. I’ve got no experience with the Tech cabinet, but Eich designed stuff is historically quite good.

So if you want a bass rig, and to get rid of the fender amp, this seems like an easy opportunity to accomplish both tasks at the same time and remain whole.

Curiously, I have an Eden WT400, a Rivera designed Fender 75 and an Eich TecAmp Puma 900.
 
#18
Sounds to me like you have a middle aged Fender Twin and the trader has a middle aged bass rig. Both of you are making a compromise and taking a risk. Seems like an even steven deal to me but I don't follow the nuances of guitar amp markets. Eden gear was the sheotte 20 years ago. I still use Eden cabs beside my Mesa Subway cabs. Nothing moves so weight doesn't matter. They are great. The amps were great too. Not model year 2020 great but great in their day. If the amp works and you like it do the trade. If you think you will have sellers remorse down the road then don't. I will say I have owned (3) Bassman amps in my time. I have sold them all and truth told I don't miss any of them. My modern gear is MUCH better for me. Are the Bassmans worth more than I sold them for? Sure. My Markbass and my Mesa have given me much more satisfaction than a few hundred $$ extra profit would in 2020 for storing said amps for decades. Don't sweat it OP.
 
#20
I had a guy offer me a crossbow, yup, for something... I don't recall now, but it was some music gear I had. Amp, instrument, something like that.

I said no. I don't want deadly weapons, it might bring something out in me I wasn't previously aware was contained within...... and more practically, I wouldn't know how to flip a cross bow. (financially speaking).

For the trade in question in this thread, I'd probably go for it because it's likely you have a relatively solid price standard for the gear he is offering, where your amp, great though it is, has annoying red knob value problems.

The Red knob twins had, if I recall, reliability issues as they used circuit boards with pots attached etc, or something like that. However, if I were to own ANY twin amp, it would be the true "evil twin" that was listed in that manual with the boogie overdrive.

So it's a matter of taste. I wouldn't own anything that heavy though these days LoL, so again it's all relative.
 
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