Another controversial Jeff Berlin video

[Afc70]

Jeff just being Jeff.. tremendous player, but I’ll agree with Lee Sklar on “serving the song”.. sometimes all a song needs is a simple, minimalistic bass part.. listen to the song, & let it dictate what you play. Being a great listener, & playing what’s necessary for the song isn’t detracting you from growing , I think it shows musical maturity , restraint & tastefulness. And Lee should know, he’s still active, after several decades of playing on thousands of recordings.

 

[ReidK]

"Serving the song" means remembering that you're part of a team, and not a solo act. It doesn't apply only to bass players; every musician should be serving the song.

 

[Bob_Ross]

 

[Gopherbassist]

As with most things, I think the truth can be multi faceted. There are those who tend to over play and play with ego, and for them the phrase "serve the song" can be a useful reminder. And there are those who would rather stay in their comfort zone at all times and play it safe, and for those "serve the song" can be a crutch and justification.

I'd put forward another facet: the social factor.

I think with as much as I see the term "serve the song," there can be a bit of social pressure, whether intentional or not, to discourage people from stretching out, exploring their musicality, and getting fulfilment from what they play. It's important to remember that this idea is subjective and personal, and one needs to apply it only as much as it feels right and makes sense to ones self.

 

[JamesGrant]

There’s an excellent if slightly depressing/funny video from Christian music ‘master of mediocre music’ Don Moen where he warns against ‘overplaying’ he does an example with his band (all smoking gospel musicians, taking a pay cheque to play mid-tempo four chord 4/4 CCM), he gets them to deliberately overplay. It sounds amazing, the whole piece comes alive and everyone in the room immediately seems more joyful and engaged. They soon clearly realise that the point was to show that it’s supposed to be bad so they then switch to just playing badly/loudly in a very unconvincing way. Don nearly realises that there is so much more potential and he is draining any joy out of his own music for the purpose of ‘serving the song’, he says ‘oh, that actually sounded pretty good’ but then he moves on to his next point. It’s funny/tragic.

 

[Hot Rats]

You can usually find me stacking 3 fuzz pedals and stomping on the whammy while beating my bass like it owes me money for Santos and Johhny's Sleepwalk.

 

[bucephylus]

Nope. Not going to engage.

The vast majority of my performances are cover gigs, because that tends to be what my local market employs. In such performances, the instrumentation is never identical to the recorded material, which the audience recognizes. We are always performing with variations. That is a fundamental construct separating Popular Music from Classical Music.

I try to do gigs with nice people. People, whose musicianship I respect. Jaco said it best when he stated that ‘you need to hear the whole mix,’ or something to that effect. Respect and support of your fellow musicians is a basis for playing to the mix. Be Kind to the whole mix.

“Serving the Song” in my understanding simply means studying and working your part ahead of time with as much enthusiasm as Will Lee, and applying your knowledge and art to the integrated mix with your fellow band mates, such that the audience hears the best intentional whole performance possible.

I never mind performing Mustang Sally. Audiences love it. Each performance has its own special elements for the moment. Watch and listen to a few of Wilson Pickett’s performances, and you will get the idea. Play for the moment, don’t regurgitate.

Jeff Berlin has amazing talent, and a career’s worth of world class gigs. Not one of my primary influences.

 

[Koshchei]

I like how you've articulated your perspective, bucephylus. Here's my counterpoint:

I play and write (I make no claims beyond being thoroughly mediocre). I try to always leave space for the musicians to add their own voice to the composition - in the Roland Barthes continuum, I try to find a place in the middle where there's enough room for both composer and performer to exist, rather than taking either extreme: "urtext" vs "the author is dead".

My belief is that performers who are able to serve their own musical voice mostly inside the context of the composition's scaffolding also quixotically end up serving the composition, by making each telling of it unique and truthful. The audience will either hold them accountable or not. Can be best summed up by Mahler: "tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire".

 

[dune]

Jaco said it best when he stated that ‘you need to hear the whole mix,’ or something to that effect. Respect and support of your fellow musicians is a basis for playing to the mix. Be Kind to the whole mix.

When I was still playing trombone in school bands, my father (low brass guy and band director) used to say: "If your part is boring, then listen to someone else, one of the parts you're currently supporting." Yet another time I regret not acting upon his advice immediately.

 

[bucephylus]

I like how you've articulated your perspective, bucephylus. Here's my counterpoint:

I play and write (I make no claims beyond being thoroughly mediocre). I try to always leave space for the musicians to add their own voice to the composition - in the Roland Barthes continuum, I try to find a place in the middle where there's enough room for both composer and performer to exist, rather than taking either extreme: "urtext" vs "the author is dead".

My belief is that performers who are able to serve their own musical voice mostly inside the context of the composition's scaffolding also quixotically end up serving the composition, by making each telling of it unique and truthful. The audience will either hold them accountable or not. Can be best summed up by Mahler: "tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire".

Absolutely. Thank you

My view is that our Popular Music Form is an oil and water mixture of European Classical Music and African Music As A Language / Conversation. Expectations / perceptions of audiences are met by appropriate contextual performance by performers; as I believe you have described. The intent of the composition, as well as informed context and background are presented at performance time.

I’ve also played quite a bit of Orchestral duty, where the objectives are more aligned with faithful rendering of technically challenging material. Also fascinating, but definitely a different thing.

 

[Koshchei]

Absolutely. Thank you

My view is that our Popular Music Form is an oil and water mixture of European Classical Music and African Music As A Language / Conversation. Expectations / perceptions of audiences are met by appropriate contextual performance by performers; as I believe you have described. The intent of the composition, as well as informed context and background are presented at performance time.

I’ve also played quite a bit of Orchestral duty, where the objectives are more aligned with faithful rendering of technically challenging material. Also fascinating, but definitely a different thing.

You're correct. And unfortunately it has become the dominant perspective, but it's uncompromisingly extreme, and it's killing the genre.

Back in Beethoven's day, improvisation was considered the absolute pinnacle of musicality. Then something got lost, and like tribute acts today, the focus shifted from a living dialogue between performer and author to faithfully rendering ONLY what's on the page. The risk shifted from accidentally causing a musical trainwreck by pushing the material too far to new and exacting levels of technical perfection that require you to pick an instrument up at the age of 3 or forget ever being good enough to soar over the really fun repertoire.

But, expectations exist to be subverted, and there are still plenty of classical musicians who don't live on the page. The following piece is improvised:



There's still room and the embers still glow.

 

[bucephylus]

You're correct. And unfortunately it has become the dominant perspective, but it's uncompromisingly extreme, and it's killing the genre.

Back in Beethoven's day, improvisation was considered the absolute pinnacle of musicality. Then something got lost, and like tribute acts today, the focus shifted from a living dialogue between performer and author to faithfully rendering ONLY what's on the page. The risk shifted from accidentally causing a musical trainwreck by pushing the material too far to new and exacting levels of technical perfection that require you to pick an instrument up at the age of 3 or forget ever being good enough to play the fun repertoire.

But, expectations exist to be subverted, and there are still plenty of classical musicians who don't live on the page. The following piece is improvised:



There's still room and the embers still glow.

Just to be clear, are you speaking towards the practice of present day Classical Music performance, or Popular Music performance?

Most talented Classical players I’ve known are certainly adept at playing “outside the box.” Edgar Meyer is a stellar example. It’s just that such playing would be somewhat cacophonous in a large orchestral section.

None of my cover gigs are strict by the transcription to the studio refs. Great value in having that as a starting point, but more work required from there.

 

[Koshchei]

Just to be clear, are you speaking towards the practice of present day Classical Music performance, or Popular Music performance?

Most talented Classical players I’ve known are certainly adept at playing “outside the box.” Edgar Meyer is a stellar example. It’s just that such playing would be somewhat cacophonous in a large orchestral section.

None of my cover gigs are strict by the transcription to the studio refs. Great value in having that as a starting point, but more work required from there.

The first para is related to classical, but overall, the commonalities between them both. I don't know enough about arena-sized popular music to have any idea if the genre is doing well or poorly!

But yes - very true. And beyond the possibility for cacophony in a SO, there's also the cost and risk involved as well. When a mid-sized concert costs >$20k in sales/donations to break even, covering salaries, rehearsal, licensing, and venue, it'd just never fly beyond a certain level.

But in smaller ensembles and sonata work, the calculus changes completely.

And totally agreed on approach! And Edgar Meyer rocks

 

[ReidK]

Serve the song with fava beans and a nice Chianti.

(One of the best TZ episodes!)

 

[DWBass]

"Minimization of musical improvement"

Not quite sure what he's getting at!! I'd say that the majority of us don't play jazz so are not 'improvising' while we're playing. If we are in cover bands we pretty much try to ace the original part...or...add a bit of ourselves in the mix. When I say I'm serving the song, it means I'm not overplaying and drawing attention away from the whole of the song. I do know that a lot of us get bored playing that way and that's cool especially if you play original music. I'm a cover band bassist through and through and I keep it simple. Just my opinion.

 

[Don Kasper]

Who is "Jeff Berlin"?
I own(ed) thousands of CD's and LP's and Cassette Tapes, and he's not on any of them...Hmmm...
(shrug emoji here)
Sheesh.

 

[ajkula66]

"Serving the song" means remembering that you're part of a team, and not a solo act. It doesn't apply only to bass players; every musician should be serving the song.

Fair enough.

However, I've never come across a guitarist, drummer or a horn player using that term.

Maybe I've lived a sheltered life.

While I have my disagreements with Mr. Berlin - whom I see as one of the top five bass players alive today - I do believe that he has a point. Whether it was presented in the optimal manner is a different matter.

My $0.02 only...

 

[jco5055]

I debated clicking on the video at all for a moment, but then I thought that maybe Mr. Berlin will keep on spiraling out of what most people perceive as reality when his videos get clicks, so I did it.

But this is a cheap one. He simply takes one niche interpretation of a popular phrase, acts like that's the only meaning and then argues against it.
This is somewhat boring - his last rants have been more entertaining IMO.

Of course there will be a few players unwilling to improve their playing, hiding behind "serve the song" to justify their mediocrity and unwillingness to further improve their playing.

But the concept of playing to serve the song is much deeper than that, and Mr. Berlin knows it.

isn't that kind of his thing though? He seems to really take a very specific meaning to what exactly self-taught or using a metronome is or isn't or how it helps people.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Abe Laboriel - whatever you play or practice, always do it with feeling.
(I think this is what Jeff is trying to say all these years).

PS. Listen to how Abe ‘serves the song’ with his amazing & often busy bass lines.
How? They were part of a very dynamic band called Koinonia and the rhythm section could read each others minds.

 

[Polfuste]

Jeff Berlin got a real talent: each time he post something with his point of view, a lot of people are discussing and commenting it.
On the next vid, i suggest him to explain that more than 4 strings on a bass is a non-sense. I bet he could score more again with comments.