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Double Bass Any hope for my rig and a double bass

K

Kevmon66

Oct 29, 2010
48
0
Chapel Thrill, NC
#1
Newbie Alert... I play electric bass in a loud original rock and roll band and wanted to incorporate an Englehardt ES 1 that I picked up. A friend of mine that is a luthier hooked me up with a Realist pick up, but that thing feeds back like a mother!

My rig is an Ampeg SVT III, with an Aguilar DB 659 preamp going through a Schroeder 410 cabinet. Sounds awesome for electric, but is there any chance this will work for the double bass or am I looking at two separate rigs? Don't have the jack for that...

A friend of mine recommended a K & K Bass Master Rockabilly plus. I imagine that I would like to occasionally slap her, but would mostly be laying down a groove. I'm thinking like the sound of G Love and Special Sauce...

Any help would be much appreciated.

Kevmon
 
#3
Maybe get a pre-amp to give you more head room? The Fishman Platinum works great for me (with the Realist), and has a phase switch to cancel feedback. Also, try positioning yourself under a 45 degree angle with the speaker cabinets - high volume blown straight at the back of the instrument will cause most trouble. In other words, you should be positioned between the instrument & the amplified sound.
 
#4
You'd have more luck if you put a preamplifier between your bass & rig with at least a 1 Mohm input, the ability to swap phase and the ability to notch out problem frequencies. Maybe the the Fishman Pro EQ Platinum Bass (about $120).
 
#8
Welcome to DB land.

IMHO You are going to have to use a magnetic pickup in conjunction with whatever piezo pickup you decide to use. The piezo by itself will not cut through enough before feedback, especially with that monster rig of yours. And it's even more difficult if you don't have very good DoubleBass technique. I currently use a Biesele magnetic pickup, as does the guy from G Love. These pickups are really expensive but they do work. I happen to have a cheaper alternative magnetic pickup for sale in the classifieds that works well too and could get you started.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9800213#post9800213

As far as piezo choices I would stick to a Fishman BP-100 or FullCircle. The K&K might work too. These are all feedback resistant pickups.

If you use two pickups you will have to get a two channel blender preamp to combine the signals. Examples are the Radial PZ-pre, EBS MicroBass II, Headway EDB-1, K&K blender. All have their pluses and minuses depending upon application. The main thing is that they have good high impedance matching for piezo pickups and various feedback filters as well as phasing options. Also important is having a DI out for the front of house as well as the ability to run a signal back to your amp as well. I always try to bypass the preamp section of a bass amplifier and go into the effect loop instead because the amp's preamps are voiced more for bass guitar. The Radial PZ-pre is excellent with all of these applications in a louder live setting from my experience.

I tour with an upright in a rock band and have spent a LOT of time and money dealing with this issue. PM me if you have other questions.
 
#9
I disagree that you can't get loud before feedback with a piezo. I played in a loud rockabilly band (guitarist cranked his Fender amp to get his tone & drummer as loud as any rock guy I've played electric bass with) with an Underwood pickup, a Fishman ProEQ 2 & a Carl Martin para eq for notching into an SVT & 8x10 w/horn and I kept up just fine. Your bass has to be set up well and you have to know your gear.
 
#10
You can get loud, yes. It's your definition of loud.

He just mentioned G-Love and Special Sauce. I played a festival with those guys, and I watched that bass player from the side of the stage with his upright ROARING through an SVT rig. There was no way that guy could do that with just a piezo p/u. He showed me his setup after the gig.

Just my opinion.
 
#12
Sounds like you have good gear so I think you can make it work.

I will say that I have never had good luck with 4x10 cabs for DB. Even at lower volumes I find it hard to keep from getting feedback. I get the feeling that the size and resonance of a bigger box has something to do with it. At the same volume a 4x10 is moving a lot more speaker surface area than the smaller amps that most of us use, perhaps this can affect the bass in some way if you are to close?
 
#13
This kind of thing is so far out of my league that I have no suggestions, except the magnetic pickup idea or an EUB. This is the reason Leo Fender built the Precision Bass. I had a Paul Tonenges magnetic pickup on my bass a long time ago and it could get very loud, but it didn't sound like the bass at all. I guess that's not the point though.

Ric
 
#14
Until recently I played in a pretty loud rockabilly band, and these are my thoughts. First, the upright generates WAY more bass frequencies than a slab, so you need to keep your bass eq flat or even cut. Second, I believe that pickups that are heavily under pressure like the realist are not good choices for high volume playing. The K & K suggestion is a good one, it's probably the best choice for what you want to do. Third, a lot of 'billy players gaffa tape over their F-holes so the body doesn't become a big resonating chamber. Fourth, you'll find more experience with this scenario over at www.rockabillybass.com It's a forum dedicated to 'billy and bluegrass players. Fifth, run a line to the PA. That way you can keep the bass frequencies light on stage and pump 'em up in the FOH.
Hope this helps.
Marty.
 
#15
I'd say your pretty much the ideal candidate for a magnetic pickup. You can get LOUD, LOUD rock volumes out of amps and speaker cabinets optimized for BG with little effort. It won't sound "my bass but louder" and will have an electric character, but that would probably sound nice for rock.....
 
#17
Try a Schatten RB1 pick up. Virtually no feedback. Dump your midrange. I play in a very loud Rockabilly/Psychobilly situation both bass players I play with run their bass's wide open (no tape over the F-holes. One uses a K&K the other a Schatten RB1. I've never heard the Schatten feed back. The k&k rarely feeds back. The Schatten in my opinion sounds better. The Schatten set up goes through an Orange tiny terror 500 watt into an Emminnance "15" 500 watt 4 ohm. (never feedsback) The K&K goes through a Markbass 500 watt combo "15" w/tweeter .
 
#18
CHEAP FIX!!!!! put your cab on a tiltback amp stand so that the sound is directed above your bass. I had horrid feedback when I started out playing DB then a buddy told me about that solution.

Or just don't stand in front of your amp. I stand directly to the side of mine (next to the drummer)
 

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