Anyone else agree about jazz bass wiring?

[walterw]

You've never tuned silently using 5th and 7th harmonics? If you pluck the same harmonic and quickly place your fingers on the tuning keys, you can feel if the strings are out of tune with each other because the vibrations are out of phase with each other. Then, just tune till you feel them cancel out.

Oh, wait... too pro for you?

if i'm fooling around with that while the rest of the band and the audience is standing there waiting for me to finish tuning, then yes, too pro for me

well, if the intonation setting on your instrument is off, then of course it's not! because yes, the 5th and 7th is perfectly fine if everything's set up correctly.

actually, the 5th/7th harmonics thing is inherently and mathematically incorrect. it will put you about 2 cents off-pitch every time. (it's a just-intonation vs. equal temperament thing.)

 

[Patman27]

actually, the 5th/7th harmonics thing is inherently and mathematically incorrect. it will put you about 2 cents off-pitch every time. (it's a just-intonation vs. equal temperament thing.)

Really? Why? Never heard that before...

 

[walterw]

that 5th interval you get by plucking the 7th fret harmonic is a "pure" 5th, a perfect mathematical ratio to the open string.

the problem is, pure intervals will sound perfect in certain keys, and totally off in other keys. the math just doesn't quite work out.

what we as modern musicians in the western world use is "equal temperament", where every note is "averaged out" to where they all sound equally decent. no interval (except the octave) is perfect anymore, but they all work OK in every key.

bottom line, the notes you get by plucking harmonics other than octaves will be slightly off from equal temp.; the 7th fret one is about 2 cents off, which is not huge, but it's not right. if you go across all 4 (or 5 or 6) strings trying to "tune" them like this, the error will add up until your top string is really off from your bottom one.

on top of all that, higher harmonics including octaves will tend to be sharp for physical reasons, too; the stiffness of the string makes a bigger and bigger difference the higher (and therefore smaller) the harmonic.

dig out those really high chimes from the 5th fret back to the nut and try to tune them with a tuner, and you'll see that they're all way sharp.

the 5th/7th chime trick will get you in the ballpark, but not over the plate.

here, have some juicy search terms: just intonation, equal temperament, pythagoras, stretch tuning

[/hijack]

 

[St Drogo]

Also, I've been having a problem with my amp... it's not loud enough... what if I installed two volume knobs for one pickup? Then would it be twice as loud?

Baah, another knob. I put a new knob on my volumepot that goes to eleven. It goes one louder, without the extra load of another pot.

 

[Patman27]

Walterw, thanks so much for the insight. I'd go so far as to say your post should be included in a sticky FAQ thread!

 

[walterw]

i went back and checked my facts, and i forgot that some of the really high harmonics are actually flat, like that flatted 7th you can barely get using lots of gain and a bridge pickup. the point remains, however, that they drift pretty far off from equal temperament.

 

[bassbenj]

In theory the blend pot sounds great, but don't get your hopes up that you're going to end up with a bunch of different distinctive blend combinations. The members more versed in electrical aspects will hopefully chime in and explain why.

Personally I hate VVT. But VBT only seems to work well on active basses. Hence I suggest a third alternative which I use. This is single (master) volume, the second position has a rotary switch. This switch is wired Neck pickup only, Both pickups parallel, both pickups series and bridge pickup only. The last knob is the usual tone.

I found that I never needed the fine tonal control of a blend pot. The differences between the above selections being enough. Plus, I love the idea of a switch which always positively locks you into a given tone rather than some vague knob settings you need to fiddle with (which is why I hate V/V/T)

Think about it. It might work for you too!

 

[ElectraPhoenix]

I have seen the VVT setup plus an additional master volume though.

Fender Starcasters (the hollowbodys they made a while back, not the crappy beginner guitars they make now) were wired V/V/T/T plus master volume. hmm.

 

[bassbenj]

I'm surprised at the strong preferences here. Three of my jazz basses are VVT, and one is VBT - I can honestly say is doesn't make a difference to me at all. Just dial in your tone with whatever you have.

Okay, muting your bass can take an extra 0.5 of a second with VVT. You got me.

Naw it does make a difference. I've got basses with VVT and VBT and I've always changed the VVT ones. The problem is that volume controls control VOLUME! So you are playing along and want the volume up or down. Well sorry, there isn't ONE volume knob, it's two and worse the mix between them controls the tone!

So the only way VVT or VBT doesn't matter is if you dial in your mix and tone and then spray the knobs with locktite and use the controls on your Amp! Feh.

But seriously. I've become a bigger and bigger fan of "presets". I've sort of concluded that when you are in the middle of a song you don't want to be "dialing-in" some tone! What you really want is some kind of selector that lets you switch between reasonably different preselected "tones". You really don't need any more fine tweaks than that when playing.

Hence my "standard" setup has become: Volume (a real volume control where that's all it does) Rotary selector: Neck, both series, both parallel, bridge. Tone. It's all I need!

But now I'm starting to advance that a bit and have been experimenting with a second switch that goes between several tone settings. Currently I'm trying one that switches between the tone knob setting and "off" Which gives you a "bright" plus a controllable rolled off tone. Even more selections would be better.

My concept of the perfect bass is starting to be one with a million knobs on it, but NONE of them work when you are playing it! Instead you use them to preset your tonal ideas. When you play the bass, it has a row of buttons along the top that lets you select the things you already worked out. Sort of like an effects pedal (but not as extreme) build into your bass!

 

[Kael]

V/V/T is substantively different than V/B/T. What I mean is, there are sounds available via V/V/T that are not accessible (IMHO) on a V/B/T bass, which, btw, I do agree is a more efficient solution.

Most of the V/V/T arrangement's expanded palette comes with settings where neither volume control is full-up.

Just a comment.

All the best,
Jonathan Herrera
SENIOR EDITOR
Bass Player Magazine

I agree in principle that VVT gives you combinations you can't get with VBT, but I've never found a tone that is different enough that I could actually hear it in a band setting.

On my 62 RI Jazz, I have the VT/VT setup, and while it's kind of fun to mess with, again, I don't feel I get any useful variation out of either the dual volumes or the dual tones.

Jonathan, do you find that there are tones you actually want and miss when you are playing a VBT setup?

Ran across this thread while looking for discussion on 500K vs 250K volume pots on VBT setups. The above statements are just inaccurate. You can achieve any pickup setting with VBT that you can with VVT. Only difference is the miniscule high end loss from going through the extra pot.

 

[dave_bass5]

VVT works for me although on my old DJ5 i had the rear pup's volume pot as a push/pull so i could instantly switch it on or off.
I liked this idea as i could leave the rear pup in the right blended position to make both pups on sound good but could switch instantly to just the neck pup on its own (that i use mostly).
Never use the bridge pup on its own.