• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Anyone using (2) Realist Lifeline Pups?

scootsmason

scootsmason

Apr 7, 2013
88
78
#1
So I really like my recently installed Realist Lifeline Pup.
When I put the sensor on the treble side of the bass it seems there is not enough bass tone for my liking. And when I put it on the bass side (you guessed it) there is less highs/mids than I'd like.
So - is anyone using two Lifelines, one on each side?
I have a small line mixer that has (4) 1/4" inputs so I could try that.
Before I order another Lifeline I wanted to see if anybody else has done it and what the results are?
Please sound off if you have tried this or are doing this now.
Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop
#4
scootsmason said:
So I really like my recently installed Realist Lifeline Pup.
When I put the sensor on the treble side of the bass it seems there is not enough bass tone for my liking. And when I put it on the bass side (you guessed it) there is less highs/mids than I'd like.
So - is anyone using two Lifelines, one on each side?
I have a small line mixer that has (4) 1/4" inputs so I could try that.
Before I order another Lifeline I wanted to see if anybody else has done it and what the results are?
Please sound off if you have tried this or are doing this now.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Just be aware that if your mixer doesn't have Hi-Z inputs (at least 1Meg ohm or higher), both of your signals will suffer a loss of low end and an increase in "piezo quack". Also, if it's a line mixer, it is most likely intended for much hotter signals (line level) than your piezo pickup and may not have enough gain, or the gain it does have will be very noisy when boosting a low-output, high-Z device like a the Lifeline. Perhaps run your single Lifeline through the line mixer to see how it sounds on its own before you do anything else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice, Ross Kratter, JazznFunk and 3 others
#5
If you're not using a preamp that accounts for the impedance of the piezo first, you might try that before investing in a possibly redundant setup. Dialing back in mids and highs with a piezo pickup is not a normal scenario... it's usually the other way around- dialing OUT the mids and highs where necessary to smooth things out. And, if you do decide you want to use 2 pickups for some reason, there are blender preamps designed for that specific purpose, with enough EQ tools to really tweak things. I wouldn't rely on a basic mixer's EQ section to deal with any of that. YMMV.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ross Kratter, scootsmason and lowfreqgeek
#7
JazznFunk said:
If you're not using a preamp that accounts for the impedance of the piezo first, you might try that before investing in a possibly redundant setup. Dialing back in mids and highs with a piezo pickup is not a normal scenario... it's usually the other way around- dialing OUT the mids and highs where necessary to smooth things out.
Click to expand...
Typically true, except for the Realist Copperhead (IME). I've put it on a spectrum analyzer and there's hardly any content above 1kHz, and most of it is below 500Hz. I've found that a pretty broad scoop at ~230Hz and some HPF down around 40Hz clean up the lows and make the upper mids/highs more present. That's on MY bass, anyway. Oddly enough, the old SWR Aural Enhancer in my Bass 350 sounds surprisingly good applied to my Realist.

I think the Lifeline is a different beast than the Copperhead, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice, Wasnex, Ross Kratter and 1 other person
#8
lowfreqgeek said:
Typically true, except for the Realist Copperhead (IME). I've put it on a spectrum analyzer and there's hardly any content above 1kHz, and most of it is below 500Hz. I've found that a pretty broad scoop at ~230Hz and some HPF down around 40Hz clean up the lows and make the upper mids/highs more present. That's on MY bass, anyway. Oddly enough, the old SWR Aural Enhancer in my Bass 350 sounds surprisingly good applied to my Realist.

I think the Lifeline is a different beast than the Copperhead, though.
Click to expand...

I use the Realist wood version and never have to boost highs, but I also rarely have to cut them too. Can you use the Copperhead or wood version without an impedance matching preamp? Sure. I did for years, into an SWR Workingman's 12. It sounded.... like a piezo pickup. The preamp made all of the difference in every good way possible. I use a Radial ToneBone PZ Deluxe.

Boosting the highs are the least of my concerns, but I like a dark sound anyway. Usually a small tweak one way or another depending on the settings of the cabinet and amp for the room. Typically a little bump on the preamp or the amp itself gets the job done to give it some air. But it's never harsh.

The low mids always need to be tamed, and I use a variable HPF depending on what the room gives me. The ToneBone has 3 settings for low-cut/HPF. I also use an Aguilar DB316 right after the ToneBone for additional midrange tweaking in the upper mids to REALLY tweak it. Having parametric/sweepable upper and lower mid control in one preamp would be ideal, but this setup works for me. I can make pretty much any amp work with this deal, and it really made me appreciate the subtleties of the Realist even more, even after using both versions of it in some form or another for close to 25 years.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wasnex, Ross Kratter, lowfreqgeek and 1 other person
#9
JazznFunk said:
I use the Realist wood version and never have to boost highs, but I also rarely have to cut them too. Can you use the Copperhead or wood version without an impedance matching preamp? Sure. I did for years, into an SWR Workingman's 12. It sounded.... like a piezo pickup. The preamp made all of the difference in every good way possible. I use a Radial ToneBone PZ Deluxe.

Boosting the highs are the least of my concerns, but I like a dark sound anyway. Usually a small tweak one way or another depending on the settings of the cabinet and amp for the room. Typically a little bump on the preamp or the amp itself gets the job done to give it some air. But it's never harsh.

The low mids always need to be tamed, and I use a variable HPF depending on what the room gives me. The ToneBone has 3 settings for low-cut/HPF. I also use an Aguilar DB316 right after the ToneBone for additional midrange tweaking in the upper mids to REALLY tweak it. Having parametric/sweepable upper and lower mid control in one preamp would be ideal, but this setup works for me. I can make pretty much any amp work with this deal, and it really made me appreciate the subtleties of the Realist even more, even after using both versions of it in some form or another for close to 25 years.
Click to expand...
I use a Grace Felix most of the time, but I have other preamps with impedances of 2.2M, and 5M, in addition to the 1M, 10M, and 20M options on the Felix. I'm hyper-aware of how the impedance affects the frequency spectrum, and what I choose depends on the room or application. Higher Z beyond a certain point just leads to more corrective EQ most of the time. I also use the HPF in conjuction with the input Z. The Realist is never harsh, but there's no edge or air to it, either, and most treble controls only add noise. I use a mic if I want any air.

The Workingman's 12 most likely has a 1Meg input on the "passive" jack and 220k on the "active" jack - that was standard for SWR. However, the mids are fixed and there is no HPF. The Bass 350 has a semi-parametric mid, which really makes it far more useable with my DB, but it really needs a HPF. That said, my gigging amp is a Trickfish Bullhead 1k, which is totally different. I've also been testing the SWR w/a Trickfish SM110 cab, which was designed for DB, so there's that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wasnex, scootsmason and JazznFunk
#10
scootsmason said:
So I really like my recently installed Realist Lifeline Pup.
When I put the sensor on the treble side of the bass it seems there is not enough bass tone for my liking. And when I put it on the bass side (you guessed it) there is less highs/mids than I'd like.
So - is anyone using two Lifelines, one on each side?
I have a small line mixer that has (4) 1/4" inputs so I could try that.
Before I order another Lifeline I wanted to see if anybody else has done it and what the results are?
Please sound off if you have tried this or are doing this now.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
1767640986080.png


Chris Wood does it! Haven't heard it or tried it myself, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice, DJ Bebop, scootsmason and 1 other person
#11
lowfreqgeek said:
I use a Grace Felix most of the time, but I have other preamps with impedances of 2.2M, and 5M, in addition to the 1M, 10M, and 20M options on the Felix. I'm hyper-aware of how the impedance affects the frequency spectrum, and what I choose depends on the room or application. Higher Z beyond a certain point just leads to more corrective EQ most of the time. I also use the HPF in conjuction with the input Z. The Realist is never harsh, but there's no edge or air to it, either, and most treble controls only add noise. I use a mic if I want any air.

The Workingman's 12 most likely has a 1Meg input on the "passive" jack and 220k on the "active" jack - that was standard for SWR. However, the mids are fixed and there is no HPF. The Bass 350 has a semi-parametric mid, which really makes it far more useable with my DB, but it really needs a HPF. That said, my gigging amp is a Trickfish Bullhead 1k, which is totally different. I've also been testing the SWR w/a Trickfish SM110 cab, which was designed for DB, so there's that.
Click to expand...

There are for sure lots of solutions to what we universally deal with when it comes to DB amplification.

The lack of any robust or flexible midrange control on the WM12 was always its limitation, along with its power handling, which is why an external preamp with those capabilities would have made things a lot better back in the day - Especially the HPF. I might actually try gigging that old setup again with the current preamp setup I have sometime, just for kicks. I feel like I could get a much better sound out of it now, despite its age.

My current setup is Realist --> Tonebone PZ Deluxe --> Aguilar DB316 (for additional sweepable midrange adjustment in a different band) --> MarkBass Big Bang --> MarkBass Traveler 2x10T. The Big Bang's EQ section is really nice for being able to clean up any loose ends with the room. My goal is to pre-shape the sound coming into whatever amp situation I'm encountering so that I need very little, if any, additional EQ on the amp to get 'my sound'. I'll have to try the Felix some day. I know a few others using it who love it as well.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: scootsmason and lowfreqgeek
#14
Instead of a second pickup you might try a repositioning of the soundpost.
On my 4/4 5-string the soundpost was rather close to the bridge leg and I needed a two-element (bridge-wing) pickup to get equal volume for all five strings. After a repositioning (and shortening) of the soundpost all one element pickups (like a Full Circle) work equally well.

Might even be cheaper than a second pickup and no second input needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice and scootsmason
#16
I’ve used virtually every piezo pickup on the planet, Underwood (dual element) Realist, Realist Lifeline, KNA-DB1, Upton Revolution Solo, Planet Wing, and a host of others I’ve probably forgotten along the way. The RedEyeTwin (or RedEye Solo) with the Ehrlund EAP works beautifully through a GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic, Traynor SB 106, Grace Designs Felix/MAS powered 1x8 and even a loaner Fender Rumble 2x10. Using two Realist pickups will cause phase issues, impedance issues, and possibly dampening issues. Sure you can do it you just have to decide if you should do it. Just my take however In my performance spaces simpler is better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JazznFunk and scootsmason

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back