Application of the "Mantra" for strings

[iiipopes]

This is to show everybody on the forum that I practice what I preach. But first, let us all repeat the mantra:
1) measure from the string anchor to the tuner side of the nut.
2) measure from the string anchor to the middle of the lowest string tuner post.
3) purchase a set of strings that the winding or speaking length is between these two measurements.

OK. Here is proof that the mantra works. I have a Squier Tele VC bass with a 32-inch scale length. But on this particular bass, I want to be able to use regular long scale strings. I saw a solution on another thread posted by @Bruce Johnson . Many thanks for showing the idea. So I dug out the old bridge plate I had removed to upgrade to a four-saddle bridge. I remounted it behind the current bridge. That now makes the distance of the new anchor to the tuner side of the nut 35 1/2 inches and the distance from the new anchor to the middle of the E string tuner post 37 1/4 inches. Since most long scale bass strings have a winding/speaking length before the taper of between 36 1/2 to 37 1/8 inches, this satisfies the mantra of purchasing a set of strings that the speaking/winding length is between the two measurements.

 

[bench]

This is to show everybody on the forum that I practice what I preach. But first, let us all repeat the mantra:
1) measure from the string anchor to the tuner side of the nut.
2) measure from the string anchor to the middle of the lowest string tuner post.
3) purchase a set of strings that the winding or speaking length is between these two measurements.

OK. Here is proof that the mantra works. I have a Squier Tele VC bass with a 32-inch scale length. But on this particular bass, I want to be able to use regular long scale strings. I saw a solution on another thread posted by @Bruce Johnson . Many thanks for showing the idea. So I dug out the old bridge plate I had removed to upgrade to a four-saddle bridge. I remounted it behind the current bridge. That now makes the distance of the new anchor to the tuner side of the nut 35 1/2 inches and the distance from the new anchor to the middle of the E string tuner post 37 1/4 inches. Since most long scale bass strings have a winding/speaking length before the taper of between 36 1/2 to 37 1/8 inches, this satisfies the mantra of purchasing a set of strings that the speaking/winding length is between the two measurements.
View attachment 7234915View attachment 7234916

It works... But at what price...

 

[micguy]

There is one tweak to this that folks should be aware of. If it's close, remember that a string stretches under tension (it's longer) - usually a bit under a quarter inch. Call it .200" - sometimes that is significant.

I make my own basses, and I use Warmoth wood. Their 5 string necks come in normal or reversed headstocks. I use the reversed, becasue, on the B string, the tuner is a bit further out in the reversed configuration, which gives more grace - there is a wider range of string lengths it can accomodate because of this:

One of the things that Leo did not get right the first time (or any time, really), is that the E string tuner on a Fender (or Music Man, or G&L) is too close to the nut. With folks making a lot of 5 string basses in 35 inch scale length, strings are coming with longer windings to accommodate that, and that leaves Fenders without enough distance to the E (or B) string tuner sometimes. A 2 over 3 headstock is much better in this regard than a 4 on top.

 

[evanrunyon]

That is…exceptionally long for a mantra.

 

[thisheregiraffe]

The folks at Rotosound agree: Rotosound Bass String Length Guide

Also, here's something to keep in mind with Roto strings (with silks) if the measurements are close:

We apply each string’s silk by hand so please expect a tolerance of +/- 10mm

I'm not sure if any other string manufacturers publish a similar tolerance. 10mm could be significant in some cases. I recently installed a set of RS66LC strings on one of my Godin Freeway 4 basses. Strung through body, the silks just barely cleared the nut - phew - but I wasn't expecting it to be such a tight fit. They are on the low side of Roto's tolerance.

 

[iiipopes]

It works... But at what price...

For most folks, it is only the price of a set of strings if you measure correctly and purchase accordingly. OTOH, I tinker. I have been tinkering and experimenting with electric instruments since my first Sears and Roebuck electric guitar, which I still have, modified in different ways over the years, in the spring of 1975, which Mom bought me from Sears Roebuck, and cringed when I took it apart, and only finally smiled when I got it back together and she could hear it through the house out of my amp. So when I post, it is from fifty years of experience, supplemented by great folks like I mentioned in this thread, which have great ideas I want to try. This is what I do: explore technical possibilities, when I am not gigging, as I do on a regular basis.

 

[iiipopes]

There is one tweak to this that folks should be aware of. If it's close, remember that a string stretches under tension (it's longer) - usually a bit under a quarter inch. Call it .200" - sometimes that is significant.

I make my own basses, and I use Warmoth wood. Their 5 string necks come in normal or reversed headstocks. I use the reversed, becasue, on the B string, the tuner is a bit further out in the reversed configuration, which gives more grace - there is a wider range of string lengths it can accomodate because of this:

View attachment 7235097

One of the things that Leo did not get right the first time (or any time, really), is that the E string tuner on a Fender (or Music Man, or G&L) is too close to the nut. With folks making a lot of 5 string basses in 35 inch scale length, strings are coming with longer windings to accommodate that, and that leaves Fenders without enough distance to the E (or B) string tuner sometimes. A 2 over 3 headstock is much better in this regard than a 4 on top.

Well, no, it is not significant. The taper should start a significant amount after the nut on the way to the tuner post. That keeps the string seated properly in the nut slot and avoids binding either at the nut or at the tuner post.

 

[iiipopes]

The folks at Rotosound agree: Rotosound Bass String Length Guide

Also, here's something to keep in mind with Roto strings (with silks) if the measurements are close:


I'm not sure if any other string manufacturers publish a similar tolerance. 10mm could be significant in some cases. I recently installed a set of RS66LC strings on one of my Godin Freeway 4 basses. Strung through body, the silks just barely cleared the nut - phew - but I wasn't expecting it to be such a tight fit. They are on the low side of Roto's tolerance.

View attachment 7235329

String tolerances are the manufacturer's problem. If the string is supposed to fit and doesn't, then demand a replacement. I have, and have received replacement strings over the years, including talking directly to the Rotosound rep when I was taping a PBS TV special and told him I had to have absolute tonal and tuning stability and consistency between takes.

 

[micguy]

Well, no, it is not significant.

.2 “ in some cases may be significant, in others not. But it’s certainly worth knowing about when looking at string winding lengths vs measurements on a bass.

 

[logdrum]

As someone who meditates, I have to say that is an interesting definition of mantra you got there

 

[bench]

For most folks, it is only the price of a set of strings if you measure correctly and purchase accordingly. OTOH, I tinker. I have been tinkering and experimenting with electric instruments since my first Sears and Roebuck electric guitar, which I still have, modified in different ways over the years, in the spring of 1975, which Mom bought me from Sears Roebuck, and cringed when I took it apart, and only finally smiled when I got it back together and she could hear it through the house out of my amp. So when I post, it is from fifty years of experience, supplemented by great folks like I mentioned in this thread, which have great ideas I want to try. This is what I do: explore technical possibilities, when I am not gigging, as I do on a regular basis.

The price i was talking about, was the horrific look of this mothman-cursed abomination which would rather make me search for a fitting set strings for a thousand cold winters, or even start playing the guitar...

 

[iiipopes]

The price I was talking about, was the horrific look of this mothman-cursed abomination which would rather make me search for a fitting set strings for a thousand cold winters, or even start playing the guitar...

That is the cross we all bear (pun intended.) Fortunately, the mantra helps focus the search, especially now that many manufacturers actually post their winding/speaking lengths before the taper or silk, making the search to find appropriate strings much easier than it was when I first started playing bass in 1976, when the only way to assure fit was to purchase the factory strings, or the marginal few aftermarket strings that only catered to the traditional Fender, flat bridge plate, 4-in-line tuners.