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Appropriate time to set up before a gig?

First of all, have you made formal arrangements for loading out? Remember, someone with the keys to the joint who is trusted by the owner has to stay there while your loading out after the place closes. Your show starts at 10:30, so I assume your playing till closing time. In California the bars close at 2:00 AM by law. Here in Nevada, not so much. But you don't want to get into a situation where they order you out of the bar before you have your gear loaded out and packed up in your vehicles. It's happened to me before. They try to intimidate you and tell you to come back and get your gear the next day. I've run into problems with attempted theft and hijackings in these situations. Stories to tell your grand kids (if you live that long).

In California, unless they repealed it, there's a law on the books that holds a venue owner responsible for stolen musical instruments / gear. Check your state to see where you stand. Go over your gear insurance policy carefully if you have one to make sure there are not caveats. Whatever you do, if your playing until closing time, do not get in a situation where the staff, or at least someone on the staff refuses to stay at the venue while your loading out, and packing up. It can happen if you don't work it out ahead of time, and sometimes if you do. I don't have to tell you that there are some pretty shady characters who work at bars. That is, not just the musicians!

You also definitely do not want them to slam the backstage door on you in the middle of the night once your gear is out of the club, and then turn off the outside lights in some crummy alley or side street. Yes, that's happened to me before, too. And yes, a couple of times there were certain problems. We / I took precautions for that (check you state laws and take your training). But that's not a solution to the problem. The solution is not to let it happen in the first place.

Obviously, access to the stage. A few places I used to play had stage elevators if they were on a second floor (or forget it), and many had back door entrances to the stage. Whoever's booking the gig should inquire about stage access and plan accordingly. I don't like / would not haul my gear into a venue when a crowd of patrons is there. To my way of thinking, accidents are just too likely to happen doing that, especially when people are drinking. Plus, there's always that "one guy". In these situations, loading your gear in before the patrons show up and then setting up before the show highly preferable. I would say mandatory. But the gig has to be worth it. Yes?

Since your playing for free, your obviously not going to cover your gig with show / gig insurance. Okay, so what happens if somebody gets hurt and it involves the band / band gear / PA, etc.? Or just one of the scrappy members of your band? What do you think will happen if you attempt to bring this contingency up with your club owner? Remember, you'r not employees (casual or otherwise) if you'r not getting paid. Nor are you independent contractors. Some people would say you are chumps. A lot of things can go wrong at a gig that you may not be taking into consideration. Hopefully you won't have to learn of these pearls the hard way.

So I say (FWIW), if your going to play for free, at least cover your tail feathers. Or, forget it. Good luck!

Edit: If anybody read this far, I probably often come off as pretty negative. Actually, most of the gigs I played / worked were fine. Most of the people I met particularly in clubs were okay. Some of them were really great, which makes it all worth it. All I'm saying is from time to time these kinds of things do / did happen. An ounce of prevention is therefore worth a pound of cure. Get things straight ahead of time and your way better off. That's all. Cheers!
 
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Four hours of music on your dime and you're still paying for drinks. Yours is a bar owner's dream band!

Bar owners can be less-smart. The best thing for him/her, is to sell drinks. Having the band wield a beer, or shot is marketing. You don't want the band to get sloshed, but you should give them a free beer or two, free cocktail or two. Gee, this isn't hard..I've hinted they need to cover our tabs, or at least charge us cost - what, 25 cents for a draft? Maybe $5 worth of beer for the whole band, whole night? And they want to save that $5? Again, not the smartest folks around.

SO, for these two specific venues, I take my own. A beer per set, four Bud Light long necks fit in my gig bag pocket perfectly. I triple bag them, they stay cool thru the third set, fourth set, who cares, lol. I love turning one up, and having the wait staff watch. I've never been questioned, but I have a response prepared, "Someone bought me a beer." That someone is moi...<g>.
 
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I have a gig tomorrow with a cover band I recently joined. We'll be playing a medium sized bar, for no pay other than cheap beer, which I won't be drinking since I'll be driving. The show is scheduled to start at 10:30. The bar owner wants us to be there at 6:00, because the bar opens at 7:00. I haven't played many of these kinds of cover band in a bar type gigs so I was wondering if this is normal.

It seems too early. I'm not crazy about having to kill four hours and also putting my car in a parking lot for that time. Any advice?

I've had a couple dinner listening room gigs like this. Essentially they wanted us setup long before any patron arrives and don't want the patrons to even get a glimpse of the band before showtime. Was it worth it? I made $40 on the gig, you tell me. Technically we could had setup and then left the venue for a couple hours but i still found it a pain in the butt.

My stance now is that if the venue needs this to happen they have to pay us for it. It significantly increases the time footprint so you should be compensated extra for that. I avoid gigs with early arrivals like the plague now. Fortunately the jazz gigs i do lately just require me to arrive 30 mins before the first note is played, which is plenty of time for me to setup my upright bass rig, take a piss, and then immediately be off to the races.
 
i am always surprised at how many people just roll in and set up an hour before the show. "have you guys ever been harassed by patrons when setting up?" "do you just not care?"

We do it 30 mins prior. It has never been an issue and no one has ever complained in the last 30 or so gigs i have done this way. We don't have a huge production and PA system, just our personal setups. Think instrument jazz trio/quartet in small venues. But i can see how a bigger band with more equipment would be a major disruption, depending on how the venue is setup. Some have load in where you really never get in the customer's way.
 
The 10:30 start for a non-paying gig would be a deal-breaker for me, but if we were going on then we'd probably arrive a 8:30. I get it that a venue might not want to "bother" patrons during sound check, but we're talking about a bar offering cheap beer as payment. Something tells me the patrons might not care one way or the other. And we always use soundcheck as an opportunity to plug the show, as in: "hey, if you liked that, stick around for the show..."
This. It's not unusual for a paid gig in an upscale restaurant/bar but a dive that's not paying you really doesn't have a say in how I get to spend most of my day. If you want multiple hours of non-playing time from me, you can pay me for my time. That's how it works in every other job. If the club takes a hard line on this, it gets a firm pass. I have better options.
 
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Modern gear is a lot more load in and hit go than it used to be. Maybe you can just tell BL you will be walking in with your suitcase rig, take it or leave it.



Think about how badly you want this gig first.

If they just want to play, there are open mics in my town with full band setups ready for folks to walk in and rock out a few tunes. I'd much rather do something like that for a first outing. You will likely meet other musicians at the same time that can lead to actual gigs that aren't this much of a pain in the ass.
 
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Thanks to everyone for chipping in with your advice and thoughts.

I did the gig last night and it went pretty well overall. At first I was a little tense and feeling a bit put out, but I calmed down and enjoyed the night. I arrived a little later and the band was doing a sound check with the bar owner watching and helping the sound.


I think I understand better now why everyone in the band seems ok with this situation. First of all, full backline was provided, including two guitar amps, a bass amp, drums, mics, and PA. Not top shelf equipment but functional. I managed to get a decent tone out of the amp with the help of a compressor pedal. Secondly, the band is quite good, but at this point I don’t think I’d say pro-level. I think this is because they have had a lot of lineup changes and have struggled to gain stability.


Normally, this could be a bad sign but given that we are based in South Korea this is understandable. Myself and the others in the band are Westerners working as English teachers. This factors into the whole payment issue, because we are not Korean citizens and are there on working visas related to teaching. So, we are technically not supposed to take on other work. Of course, this could be a grey area, and one might think that an occasional 50-100$ job now and then should be ok, but it’s debatable and could endanger our jobs. Anyway, it makes me not want to push too hard for payment, or to promote myself too much as a musician.


Also, we are not based in Seoul but in the South West, a traditionally economically undeveloped area. As a consequence of this people here are not used to paying for entertainment. I subbed on a jazz gig once in an all-Korean band and learned that they normally got paid about 20 $ a gig, and these were good pro-level jazz musicians. I have been here a few years and did get decent pay a few times. These were through local festivals.

As for the large time gap, before the show. Well we went to a restaurant for dinner, then walked around downtown. There was a festival happening. We chatted and I got to the band members a little better. The time passed pretty fast. Everyone in the band seems pretty nice and competent in their roles. So far there doesn't seem to be much drama.

Given this context, I think I will stick with this band for a while. Why? Well, because they are nice people and I don’t have many other options.
 
Thanks to everyone for chipping in with your advice and thoughts.

I did the gig last night and it went pretty well overall. At first I was a little tense and feeling a bit put out, but I calmed down and enjoyed the night. I arrived a little later and the band was doing a sound check with the bar owner watching and helping the sound.


I think I understand better now why everyone in the band seems ok with this situation. First of all, full backline was provided, including two guitar amps, a bass amp, drums, mics, and PA. Not top shelf equipment but functional. I managed to get a decent tone out of the amp with the help of a compressor pedal. Secondly, the band is quite good, but at this point I don’t think I’d say pro-level. I think this is because they have had a lot of lineup changes and have struggled to gain stability.


Normally, this could be a bad sign but given that we are based in South Korea this is understandable. Myself and the others in the band are Westerners working as English teachers. This factors into the whole payment issue, because we are not Korean citizens and are there on working visas related to teaching. So, we are technically not supposed to take on other work. Of course, this could be a grey area, and one might think that an occasional 50-100$ job now and then should be ok, but it’s debatable and could endanger our jobs. Anyway, it makes me not want to push too hard for payment, or to promote myself too much as a musician.


Also, we are not based in Seoul but in the South West, a traditionally economically undeveloped area. As a consequence of this people here are not used to paying for entertainment. I subbed on a jazz gig once in an all-Korean band and learned that they normally got paid about 20 $ a gig, and these were good pro-level jazz musicians. I have been here a few years and did get decent pay a few times. These were through local festivals.

As for the large time gap, before the show. Well we went to a restaurant for dinner, then walked around downtown. There was a festival happening. We chatted and I got to the band members a little better. The time passed pretty fast. Everyone in the band seems pretty nice and competent in their roles. So far there doesn't seem to be much drama.

Given this context, I think I will stick with this band for a while. Why? Well, because they are nice people and I don’t have many other options.
With this context, your decision to work for so little compensation makes a great deal more sense. The social position of foreigners who teach English can be a bit dicey, I've heard.
 
Depends on the gig. Most bar type gigs, as late as possible. I wait for the drummer before putting any of my stuff on stage.

It also depends on the band. One I play in has been together for about 7 years. We can get everything from vehicles to set up in under 30 minutes, and just need a quick sound check, since only vocals (and maybe kick drum) go through the PA. The other has a much larger PA, more members, and a more complex light setup.
 
Thanks to everyone for chipping in with your advice and thoughts.

I did the gig last night and it went pretty well overall. At first I was a little tense and feeling a bit put out, but I calmed down and enjoyed the night. I arrived a little later and the band was doing a sound check with the bar owner watching and helping the sound.


I think I understand better now why everyone in the band seems ok with this situation. First of all, full backline was provided, including two guitar amps, a bass amp, drums, mics, and PA. Not top shelf equipment but functional. I managed to get a decent tone out of the amp with the help of a compressor pedal. Secondly, the band is quite good, but at this point I don’t think I’d say pro-level. I think this is because they have had a lot of lineup changes and have struggled to gain stability.


Normally, this could be a bad sign but given that we are based in South Korea this is understandable. Myself and the others in the band are Westerners working as English teachers. This factors into the whole payment issue, because we are not Korean citizens and are there on working visas related to teaching. So, we are technically not supposed to take on other work. Of course, this could be a grey area, and one might think that an occasional 50-100$ job now and then should be ok, but it’s debatable and could endanger our jobs. Anyway, it makes me not want to push too hard for payment, or to promote myself too much as a musician.


Also, we are not based in Seoul but in the South West, a traditionally economically undeveloped area. As a consequence of this people here are not used to paying for entertainment. I subbed on a jazz gig once in an all-Korean band and learned that they normally got paid about 20 $ a gig, and these were good pro-level jazz musicians. I have been here a few years and did get decent pay a few times. These were through local festivals.

As for the large time gap, before the show. Well we went to a restaurant for dinner, then walked around downtown. There was a festival happening. We chatted and I got to the band members a little better. The time passed pretty fast. Everyone in the band seems pretty nice and competent in their roles. So far there doesn't seem to be much drama.

Given this context, I think I will stick with this band for a while. Why? Well, because they are nice people and I don’t have many other options.
Great gig report! So glad it worked out for you! Makes a lot more sense now that you filled in the details.

I've lived in the orient. FWIW, I wouldn't be too quick to cross over the line as far as their rules are concerned. Their criminal justice system / judicial system is quite different from ours, and they look at individual "rights" and such ideas very differently than we do here in the US, for example. Very differently! An infraction of their rules doesn't mean the same thing in the orient as it does in western culture. Don't find out the hard way what I'm talking about! PM me if you need more details about this.

Remember, there are more than formal ways of compensating people with money that do not break their rules. It's all about personal relationships and developing trust. Learn about their customs and saving face. You have a whole new world awaiting you. I think you might like it! Just remember your a guest there and do your very best to conform to their rules, and you'll do fine. You might not want to leave. Good luck.
 
Sounds like he wants you there early so you don't bother his customers while you are setting up. You're playing for beer and he wants you there 4 and 1/2 hours early? I'd pass.

Is this normal? Not in any clubs I play. But then I don't play night clubs that don't pay. ;)

Me either... See this is what happens when bar owners have the upper hand... That is just BS... Six hours of my time .. for beer is not happening. I just won't play.
 
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I know the OP's freebie is over, but to generalize...

1. Whatever you personally have said yes to, do.

2. But the corollary: let your BL know your minimums. (Simple version, for example: "If my dates are free on the band's blackout-dates calendar, you can automatically count me in for any gig within X00 miles, with pay at least $X00, and with door-to-door times less than X hrs. Anything short of those minimums, I'll agree to if I can, but I will need to be asked first, and I might need to decline.")

3. If your BL offers gigs (or proposes doing freebies) on terms you can't say yes to, counter-propose the terms that are doable for you. ("Downbeat is 10:30. I can arrive and set up my stage rig by 9:30. I'm sorry I won't be able to help with a 6 o'clock load-in for this one. If that's ok, count me in. If the 6:00 load-in is non-negotiable for everyone, you'll have to count me out on this freebie.")
 
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Other than weddings where we upped price for such nonsense, we did it once. Imagine a room with over 200 women that have just been watching male strippers and for the most part the women are a tad drunk. We absolutely had to be set up before the male strippers started, and had to hit the stage as the last stripper was walking to the dressing room.

I assume it was still a paying gig, though, right?

Thanks to everyone for chipping in with your advice and thoughts.

I did the gig last night and it went pretty well overall. At first I was a little tense and feeling a bit put out, but I calmed down and enjoyed the night. I arrived a little later and the band was doing a sound check with the bar owner watching and helping the sound.


I think I understand better now why everyone in the band seems ok with this situation. First of all, full backline was provided, including two guitar amps, a bass amp, drums, mics, and PA. Not top shelf equipment but functional. I managed to get a decent tone out of the amp with the help of a compressor pedal. Secondly, the band is quite good, but at this point I don’t think I’d say pro-level. I think this is because they have had a lot of lineup changes and have struggled to gain stability.


Normally, this could be a bad sign but given that we are based in South Korea this is understandable. Myself and the others in the band are Westerners working as English teachers. This factors into the whole payment issue, because we are not Korean citizens and are there on working visas related to teaching. So, we are technically not supposed to take on other work. Of course, this could be a grey area, and one might think that an occasional 50-100$ job now and then should be ok, but it’s debatable and could endanger our jobs. Anyway, it makes me not want to push too hard for payment, or to promote myself too much as a musician.


Also, we are not based in Seoul but in the South West, a traditionally economically undeveloped area. As a consequence of this people here are not used to paying for entertainment. I subbed on a jazz gig once in an all-Korean band and learned that they normally got paid about 20 $ a gig, and these were good pro-level jazz musicians. I have been here a few years and did get decent pay a few times. These were through local festivals.

As for the large time gap, before the show. Well we went to a restaurant for dinner, then walked around downtown. There was a festival happening. We chatted and I got to the band members a little better. The time passed pretty fast. Everyone in the band seems pretty nice and competent in their roles. So far there doesn't seem to be much drama.

Given this context, I think I will stick with this band for a while. Why? Well, because they are nice people and I don’t have many other options.

Well, this is a whole lot of information that wasn't in the original post. With all that backline, what did you really have to "set up?" A bass and a pedalboard? It's still a big demand on your time that you come in early, basically to sound check, but if that was all the gear in question I would probably show up, do the soundcheck, and then throw my gear back in the trunk of the car and go do what I wanted for the evening till showtime... which sounds like it's not far from what you did.

I have done a sub gig once like you're mentioning - it was sort of jazz/easy listening stuff in a restaurant and I think I got paid $25 and a sandwich. I had been told the venue would feed us but they didn't, I only got the sandwich because a patron liked the band and bought something for us.

How long did you play for? The 10:30 start time shocked me, because around here a cover band bar gig usually runs 3-4 hours, you start around 9:00 (give or take) and hope you're good enough to hold a crowd past midnight. Three hours is an uphill battle to keep people interested in any medium, let alone four - even a movie is usually between an hour and a half and two hours, unless it's some huge epic. Do Koreans just stay out later, or did you do a much shorter show than we do here?
 
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I assume it was still a paying gig, though, right?

Definitely paid, and the next day was their last day of business.



Well, this is a whole lot of information that wasn't in the original post. With all that backline, what did you really have to "set up?" A bass and a pedalboard? It's still a big demand on your time that you come in early, basically to sound check, but if that was all the gear in question I would probably show up, do the soundcheck, and then throw my gear back in the trunk of the car and go do what I wanted for the evening till showtime... which sounds like it's not far from what you did.

I have done a sub gig once like you're mentioning - it was sort of jazz/easy listening stuff in a restaurant and I think I got paid $25 and a sandwich. I had been told the venue would feed us but they didn't, I only got the sandwich because a patron liked the band and bought something for us.

How long did you play for? The 10:30 start time shocked me, because around here a cover band bar gig usually runs 3-4 hours, you start around 9:00 (give or take) and hope you're good enough to hold a crowd past midnight. Three hours is an uphill battle to keep people interested in any medium, let alone four - even a movie is usually between an hour and a half and two hours, unless it's some huge epic. Do Koreans just stay out later, or did you do a much shorter show than we do here?
 
How long did you play for? The 10:30 start time shocked me, because around here a cover band bar gig usually runs 3-4 hours, you start around 9:00 (give or take) and hope you're good enough to hold a crowd past midnight. Three hours is an uphill battle to keep people interested in any medium, let alone four - even a movie is usually between an hour and a half and two hours, unless it's some huge epic. Do Koreans just stay out later, or did you do a much shorter show than we do here?

We played little less than two hours, including a 20 minute break between sets.
 
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