That's what I'm thinking - the place where you can cut back is lights. Do the figures and minimize the lighting.
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Are two 20 amp circuits enough?
- Thread starter jakelly
- Start date
Add up the # of lights times the wattage on each light. You WILL need that much power.
Amps are trickier. A 1000 watt amp needs more than 2000 watts of wall power to produce 1000 watts of audio, and they vary wildly in efficiency. So a newer class D 1000 watt amp could require not too much more than that, but a traditional power amp would take significantly more than 1000 watts. Now factor in that the power required varies with the music, so you know how the led lights on the output levels dance around? If 0 dB light is 1000W, -3db is 500W, -6 is 250W. So hard to estimate an average power draw.
You mention powered speakers, how much power are they rated to produce? Most of the powered speakers use class D amps to reduce weight, heat. So that's good.
If you have the old style incandescent lights, get them on one circuit if they'll fit, and add non-essentials to that circuit, maybe monitors. Keep mains/amps on the other circuit if possible. That way if lights take out one breaker, the music won't stop.
Randy
Amps are trickier. A 1000 watt amp needs more than 2000 watts of wall power to produce 1000 watts of audio, and they vary wildly in efficiency. So a newer class D 1000 watt amp could require not too much more than that, but a traditional power amp would take significantly more than 1000 watts. Now factor in that the power required varies with the music, so you know how the led lights on the output levels dance around? If 0 dB light is 1000W, -3db is 500W, -6 is 250W. So hard to estimate an average power draw.
You mention powered speakers, how much power are they rated to produce? Most of the powered speakers use class D amps to reduce weight, heat. So that's good.
If you have the old style incandescent lights, get them on one circuit if they'll fit, and add non-essentials to that circuit, maybe monitors. Keep mains/amps on the other circuit if possible. That way if lights take out one breaker, the music won't stop.
Randy
Yup you could go a long time and not have a problem
we used to have a huge cable with alligator clips and open the
electric panel and just clamp right on to the incoming wires
till someone hooked into the highleg and smoked 10- 500 watt par bulbs . They looked great nice and bright for about 60 seconds
So we bought a multimeter the next day to check the voltage after that
Best 20.00 investment ever
Like I said, I'm not sure what was done, how it was wired up...and I never connect it. It was done by a professional electrician and all I know is we have clean 110 power that's grounded. It's tested after connecting prior to every gig, before we plug any of our gear into it.
Yeah, I recall the ol' alligator clip deal...years ago a drummer in one of my bands connected it up that way...all he remembers was when he woke up (across the room) he couldn't hear anything for a while.
Actually that is incorrect and correct at the same time
wiring between phases on a delta high leg 3 phase service is 240 volts
wiring between phases on a Y connected 3 phase service is 208 volt
They are 2 very different transformer connections and the delta
connected service between one of the legs to neutral will give you 240 volts so was the point if you had a 220 volt outlet with no neutral and connected your ungrounded panel hookup to
it one of your outlets could have 240 volts on it if it the outlet was across the high leg and one of the other legs
Can and does happen
Been in the electrical trade for 30 years so believe me when I tell ya I seen alot of stuff burnt to a crisp
Like I said, I'm not sure what was done, how it was wired up...and I never connect it. It was done by a professional electrician and all I know is we have clean 110 power that's grounded. It's tested after connecting prior to every gig, before we plug any of our gear into it.
Yeah, I recall the ol' alligator clip deal...years ago a drummer in one of my bands connected it up that way...all he remembers was when he woke up (across the room) he couldn't hear anything for a while.
I'm happy to hear that you test it before using it
It's been about 30 years since I've dealt with deltas, so I bow to your experiences.
I think we can surely agree on using a voltmeter & outlet tester every time when messing around with tap-ins.
No reason to bow to me my friend
this info is put out there to save anyone on here any grief with damaged equipment or even worse someone getting shocked
or burnt from a bad hookup
And yes to all who will listen a multimeter is a darn good idea before you plug several thousand dollars worth of equipment
even a standard outlet that has loose connections on it could damage your equipment (you know the ones that are so old that
the plug keeps falling out of from all them low notes)
No reason to bow to me my friend
this info is put out there to save anyone on here any grief with damaged equipment or even worse someone getting shocked
or burnt from a bad hookup
And yes to all who will listen a multimeter is a darn good idea before you plug several thousand dollars worth of equipment
even a standard outlet that has loose connections on it could damage your equipment (you know the ones that are so old that
the plug keeps falling out of from all them low notes)
Wouldn't that be just about every outlet in most bars?
Even when using provided 110 power ALWAYS test the outlets before plugging in. NEVER assume any outlets are safe unless you've tested them.
You'll be fine. Divide it up on the AC line rating of each device as best you can.
I've done 2 guitars (100w tube heads), 3 x Behringer EP2500, 16 100w par cans, and a 1400 watt bass head on 2 x 15A circuits without an issue.
All we had to do was setup the lights with a max of 8 'on' at any one time (10 was possible, but a margin of safety is always a good thing).. easy as cake with a good set of dimmer packs and a good DMX lighting controller
We also did a lower volume gig once with the same PA, 8 100w pars, a single 25w guitar head and my RH236. All on the same 12 ga 50' extension cord going to one 15A outlet.. Not a single problem in 4 hours.
I'd put the lights on one circuit and the PA on the other. I think it can be done - I've run bands without lights off one 20-amp circuit. However, I've blown breakers on 15-amp circuits. I'd recommend not running the PA system and backline off two different circuits. There can be some nasty shocks if the two circuits have different ground potentials.
In the US, 3-phase power is rarely seen in residential or light commercial buildings. It is primarily needed where large electric motors are in use, which is mostly heavy commercial and industrial areas.
The 230 Volts service you usually encounter in residential and light commercial buildings is called "split-phase". It consists of a ground-bonded neutral and two "hots" (a.ka. line) which are each at 115 Volts relative to neutral/ground, but 180 degrees out of phase with each-other. Hence, the line-to-line potential is 230 Volts.
The 230 Volts service you usually encounter in residential and light commercial buildings is called "split-phase". It consists of a ground-bonded neutral and two "hots" (a.ka. line) which are each at 115 Volts relative to neutral/ground, but 180 degrees out of phase with each-other. Hence, the line-to-line potential is 230 Volts.
One of the bands I play in uses a single 30 amp circuit to run our PA, a single amp rack with the amps for the subs, tops and monitors, all QSC professional level stuff. The tops are 2x12 and a horn and the subs are 2x18. So with your powered monitors and PA you should be fine with a 20 amp. As far as light go, I've run two of our Elation dimmer bars on a single 20 amp circuit and just run it at about 75% and didnt have any problem.
BnB
BnB
I'd see if you could source another plug for the lights 40 amps will bump a good sized PA but add pars and you're likely to have problems.
You might come out better renting LED's rather than a generator IMO
You might come out better renting LED's rather than a generator IMO
I'm an engineer at a Class A office building, and we've got more 3 phase than you can shake a stick at. Of course we're over a million sq ft so perhaps that's "heavy" commercial, never heard that term so I can't say exactly what it means.
We have 3 phase everywhere here just about any commercial building will have it (AC Units have big compressors no?)
No to say you won't find plenty with single phase
9 out of 10 restaurants will have 3 phase here
I have seen plenty of high leg services in restaurants / bars
which is where alot of us will be playing
But really can he make it on 2 circuits which was the real question to begin with
If you limit the lights on one circuit below 2400 watts or so
and stick the PA and amps on the other you could do a small venue (you can stretch the watts thing if the lights will cycle
and not all be on at the same time)
No If he rolls in an amprack with any more than 2 large power amps he's gonna be trippin the other circuit once he adds in the rest of the gear
He did say it was outside gig so the calculation would come down to how big and how many amps he was gonna use
The above statement is not helpful since the draw of the Amplifiers fluctuates with use. Every time a note is struck, especially stuff below 100 hz, the capacitors in the power supply section discharge and then "refill".
Also, no significant inrush happens with lighting. Inrush happens with inductive loads.
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