Are you born a drummer?

[oldcatfish]

I think that the entire notion of "born talent" often comes down to people not knowing how to teach.

I disagree completely with this. Several of my current and former students gig....and I have more people approaching me for lessons than I have time to teach. So I must be doing something right.
And I see the natural talent thing all of the time.

If it were not a factor, then every kid who likes to play sports would have a realistic chance of going professional--but very few people become professional athletes. Those that do, certainly work very hard, but they definitely have a genetic gift.

To put it another way, look at the scientific studies that have been done on progressive resistance training (weight lifting). Everyone does the same routine and it is supervised. There is an average amount of muscle that a novice can gain in 6 months...about 8 pounds (6 to 10 depending on the study). Not everyone gains 8 pounds, some gain less, and some more. The ones who gain more have genetic potential--they are basically "born with a natural talent."
One of my friends used to be a competitive powerlifter. He started lifting weights when he joined the football team in high school. Within months he was lifting more than anyone else on the team. The football coach talked him into switching to the sport of powerlifting instead of football...because he wasn't good at football, just lifting. My friend was on the same lifting routine as everyone else, but to quote him, "I just seemed to be able to lift more every time that I stepped into the gym."

 

[lz4005]

Do you need an innate ability to be an excellent drummer? Now I don't deny that anyone can learn basic drumming skills with time and practice. But what if you want to be a world-class drummer. Is keeping time with all four limbs a natural talent? Because it does seem that drummers have a much better sense of multitasking that guitarists or bassists.

There are limits to how much we can develop our natural abilities. For example, from childhood I was naturally able to match pitches and remember songs by ear before I ever touched an instrument. But also since childhood I've been really bad at doing two independent things at once. It's almost impossible for me, no matter how much I practice.

I could make myself miserable by practicing drums 4 hours every day and maybe get to where I could be in a low-level band after a few years. Maybe. Or I could do what makes me happy and play bass, where learning songs quickly by ear and being able to play fretless more in-tune than 90% of the bass players in my area gets me decent paying gigs with minimal work on my part.

A lot has to do with personality as well. I used to be a decent lead guitar player when I was in my 20's. But that role didn't make me happy, even though I could do it. I prefer to lock in with a drummer and drive a song, rather than blowing my stuff all over the top of it (so to speak). The guitar player in my jazz trio is the exact opposite. He's played bass in working bands, but it bores him to death.

 

[swarfrat]

To be fair - some people do have a knack. But I very strongly feel that teaching is perhaps the least understood discipline in all of human experience. Just because you have students who are self-motivated and pick it up quickly doesn't necessarily mean that you're a hot shot teacher. Indeed, the students who don't seem to get it are perhaps the true test of your teaching ability.

 

[lfmn16]

I've played with (and given lessons to) enough people over the years to know that some people pick up instruments right away, some take longer & require much more woodshedding, while some simply don't have the focus, ear, determination or simply that elusive "something" required to become a good musician.
Those people can practice day in/day out & never get beyond the basics.

I played guitar in a trio with a bass player years ago that had videos, books, took lessons, practiced diligently, but just didn't have the spark. He wasn't a bad player, but there is just something that a really good player has that you can't teach.

I used to play with a bass player that said there are a few people with God given talent that are just off the charts, there are a handful that have some of the gift and worked their a$$es off to develop it and then there's everybody else. I don't think he was too far off the mark.

 

[superdick2112]

I played guitar in a trio with a bass player years ago that had videos, books, took lessons, practiced diligently, but just didn't have the spark. He wasn't a bad player, but there is just something that a really good player has that you can't teach.

I used to play with a bass player that said there are a few people with God given talent that are just off the charts, there are a handful that have some of the gift and worked their a$$es off to develop it and then there's everybody else. I don't think he was too far off the mark.

Exactly.

 

[mrcbass]

I believe I was born with naturally good rhythm. As I saw in another post, with my hands, I can keep just about any beat - I'm a pretty damn good percussionist - but add in the legs/feet? Fuggetaboutit. Sure I can do some real basic stuff on a kit, but I doubt there is any amount of time I could put in to get all 4 limbs working on their own. I'll never get how drummer can sing - that is just too much.

I believe that there is a larger dependency on natural talent for something like music (and arts in general). YEs anybody can learn to make noise on any instrument and to some degree even play it competently. Those with born talent get competent without a lot of struggle (in some cases without even really trying - which can be a curse - one might never learn how to really practice because it comes relatively easy.

To me, that's where the work vs. talent becomes a real question: Those with talent that know how and are willing to put in the work can take it to higher levels, where as those without the natural talent, can probably never get beyond competent.

 

[LowActionHero]

I read that Buddy Rich never practiced.
But I'm betting he practiced a few times when he first started....

Playing drums, like many other things, requires practicing easy stuff until it's second nature and even boring, then adding something else to it. Do that til it's second nature and even boring, then add another something else to it. After awhile you got some crazy cool 4 way coordination going and someone who didn't see your years of practice thinks you have natural talent.

But then again it definitely comes easier to some people, while others have to really work for it.

 

[oldcatfish]

To be fair - some people do have a knack. But I very strongly feel that teaching is perhaps the least understood discipline in all of human experience. Just because you have students who are self-motivated and pick it up quickly doesn't necessarily mean that you're a hot shot teacher. Indeed, the students who don't seem to get it are perhaps the true test of your teaching ability.

I think that you may have misunderstood my point. I am certainly a competent teacher and most of my students do well, but I'm sure there are much better teachers around. As a teacher my job is to try and get every student better...the trick is everyone learns differently. You have to be adaptable, but it is challenging. I was responding to a post that was putting everything on the teacher, and that certainly isn't realistic, in my experience.

In my experience gigging and jamming with a lot of musicians over the years, and teaching a variety of students, there is a natural talent factor. Most teachers will agree with me too. As will most coaches in any sport. I know because I have talked to quite a few teachers and quite a few coaches.

There is no denying that hard work can overcome a lot, but some people just have an ability to easily learn an instrument, regardless of their poor practice habits or teacher. In fact many of them are self-taught to a high level, because they pick it up so easily. And if you take one of the natural learners, and they have a lot of drive--then you have the potential of a world class player.

And by the way, if anyone is curious, I am not a natural...but do have a lot of drive. So, I am a decent musician....but not a great one. I could be better if I had more time to practice, but I am not likely to be a world class player no matter what. At least not as a guitar player, piano player, or drummer. I would have a better chance as a bass player. Because it comes more easily to me. With the other instruments a lot of practice = small gains, with bass a little practice = faster gains.

 

[Alfonso Alba]

I think that the entire notion of "born talent" often comes down to people not knowing how to teach.

How do you explain self-taught musicians, then?

 

[swarfrat]

Apparently this view seriously ticks off some. Being a natural pretty much means you're pre-bent along a happy path to being good at something. Should you never encounter a drumset, and decide to become a lawyer or a seamtress, you might not have discovered this. But mostly when we say "some people are born with it" we usually mean to imply that others never can attain to it. And THAT I think is mostly not knowing how to teach, insufficient motivation, etc..

But teaching talent itself is perhaps the most rare of such "born with it" talents. Most people just present what they were presented with. Without understanding why some of their students "just don't get it". Or understanding how to help students find their own motivation. But NONE of us are actually born knowing how to do ANY of this stuff. Including speak, play drums, hold your pee, etc....

 

[oldcatfish]

Apparently this view seriously ticks off some. Being a natural pretty much means you're pre-bent along a happy path to being good at something. Should you never encounter a drumset, and decide to become a lawyer or a seamtress, you might not have discovered this. But mostly when we say "some people are born with it" we usually mean to imply that others never can attain to it. And THAT I think is mostly not knowing how to teach, insufficient motivation, etc..

But teaching talent itself is perhaps the most rare of such "born with it" talents. Most people just present what they were presented with. Without understanding why some of their students "just don't get it". Or understanding how to help students find their own motivation. But NONE of us are actually born knowing how to do ANY of this stuff. Including speak, play drums, hold your pee, etc....

--I consider "natural talent" as having a gift to excel in something with less effort than the average person. It can't be taught. You either have it, or you don't.

The ability to teach a skill is different. Almost anyone can be taught something. Some teachers are certainly better than others, and if a student learns from a good teacher and works his/her butt off...they will likely get really good. But, if that same student happens to have natural talent...then you have the potential for a world class musician. There is a difference. Like it or not, that is genetics.

Going back to the example of my power-lifting friend, everyone else on his football team was on the same lifting routine, but they didn't gain strength nearly as fast, or as much. Why? Genetics. A natural born gift.

If there was not a genetic "natural talent" component to life, everyone could be a pro-basketball player if they wanted to. But, unfortunately, height is one of the attributes that are required to excel in basketball, so that limits a lot of people.

Or musically, singing is a great example. We are all born with a voice that is limited genetically. You can develop your range and technique with voice lessons....but not everyone can become a great lead singer. No matter how hard they work. Some people have a natural gift.

For drumming, the attributes required to excel include a great internal clock and limb independence. Everyone can improve if they work hard enough, but some people are naturally more coordinated and able to multi-task with their limbs, and if they have a good internal clock...they have the "gift" to potentially be a better drummer than most people.

When I think of someone who is "naturally born" to do something, I think of a person who has discovered their gift, and developed it to a high level. They may have had a great teacher, or they may have been self-taught. That isn't relevant. If a great teacher was all it took...everyone who studied under the teacher would excel if they worked hard enough.