Arthritis in the UK

[Mark Ambler]

I tried a lot of things when my hands started hurting all the time. What worked for me was a daily 220mg Naproxen Sodium and 500mg Vitamin B-1.
Pain is much reduced and I can play comfortably again.

Naproxen should only be taken intermittently, it is terrible for your kidneys and Liver and you need to also take Omeprazole to stop it giving you stomach ulcers and damaging the lining of your stomach. Not a drug to take long term. Naproxen has a much longer half life than ibruprofen, so it is very effective, but it can lead to irreversible damage to your liver (especially if you drink) and kidneys. I suggest you get checked out by your doctor and only use Naproxen occasionally, and with something to protect your stomach.

To the OP. Osteo and Rheumatoid Arthritis are totally different, find out which you have. Eat healthy, get plenty of sleep, be active and keep the weight down.

I have Psoriatic Arthritis, which is similar to Rheumatoid. It developed from regular Psoriasis and a year or so ago I was prescribed a Biologic treatment.
I had been taking Naproxen 500mg twice a day (before I knew how toxic it was). The Biologic is self injected every two weeks and has been a miracle for me. Thankfully I hadn't sustained significant joint damage and my symptoms literally stopped the first day of taking the Biologic. Thankfully I get this free in the UK, as its hideously expensive. Good luck!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Wishing you the best OP. I was just diagnosed with diffuse idiopathic skeletal hyperostosis (DISH). So, I'm in chronic pain always. NSAIDs do help a little but for me, but they're not a miracle drug. I'm currently going through PT and doing exercises at home. I'm also trying to change my diet and lose some more weight. Hopefully, that will lesson the symptoms. But as a 50-year-old, I can't imagine living like this for another 20-25 years--if I even last that long.

I don't know what DISH is but I hope you get some relief from it and get to carry on well beyond 75, but in more comfort.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I don't know what type of arthritis I have and there hasn't yet been any suggestion from my doctor either times I have brought it up that there would be testing to determine this.

 

[definenredefine]

Curcumin (turmeric) does have some supporting evidence, but don’t be fooled into thinking that supplements are free of side effects.

One of those side effects is that turmeric makes for delicious curries. OP, if you're indeed in the UK, the best source of turmeric (along with the black pepper mentioned up thread) is one of the many delicious curry houses I presume you have close to you. Take advantage!

Seriously though, this is good advice. Turmeric (and other herbals, plants, spices, etc) has lots of chemicals and alkaloids in it. Some of them may have anti-inflammatory or other such properties. These compounds tend not to be studied in a systematic way because, frankly, there isn't much money in it. Especially compared to selling raw turmeric as a "supplement" and avoiding any direct medical claims.

I don't know what type of arthritis I have and there hasn't yet been any suggestion from my doctor either times I have brought it up that there would be testing to determine this.

I'm sorry your doc hasn't offered more in service of determining what sort of arthritis you're dealing with. I would ask directly the next time you see them. If you still don't get an answer, it may be time to find a new doc.

Good luck! Hope you get some relief.

 

[Mark Ambler]

I don't know what type of arthritis I have and there hasn't yet been any suggestion from my doctor either times I have brought it up that there would be testing to determine this.

That is totally unacceptable.

 

[Tom Bomb]

I wear a copper bracelet sometimes, my grandmother's. It works a charm (emphasis on charm). Can't wear it for too long — no point really, and it's never going to solve the problem, from what I can gather.

Scientific research doesn’t support copper bracelets as a treatment for arthritis. That being said, wearing one couldn’t hurt!
Do Copper Bracelets Help Ease Arthritis?
​

Let's just say it's a fashion statement, and it's a comfort of sorts, when the pain arrives, as it always does, sporadically. It goes away, my osteoarthritic pain does.

Turmeric with black pepper may work (It's been said before). — love a good vindaloo. Broccoli, especially its sprouts, and pineapple also make the grade, they say. Gentle massage helps sometimes (mobilization). Mostly, I just grimace grin and bear it. Soldier on, trying not to inflame the situation further.

Avoid Invalid Link Removed and other chemical byproducts, chemicals created when cooking some foods at temperatures above 120ºC — as a diet, it's 'toast.' Avoid anything burnt, blackened, BBQ'd, and golden, fried foods, for the same reason. Avoid the acrylamidas touch.

Aside from being potentially carcinogenic, all of that, many are saying, may also have a deleterious effect on cartilage repair, and the repair and maintenance of other longer-living cells — those associated with eyesight, hearing, and the intellect, for instance. Understanding acrylamide, it seems likely that this will be a sensible platform, and may help.

NB: I'm no expert but I play (with) one on the internet, from time to time​

 

[buldog5151bass]

You have a medical problem. Why aren't you asking a medical professional, rather than amateur/semi-pro/professional musicians?

 

[Mark Ambler]

You have a medical problem. Why aren't you asking a medical professional, rather than amateur/semi-pro/professional musicians?

His doctor has been no help and some of the advice and support here may (hopefully) be helpful, especially about getting a doctor that will help.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

I don't know what type of arthritis I have and there hasn't yet been any suggestion from my doctor either times I have brought it up that there would be testing to determine this.

I have friends in the UK and understand that there are access issues to many specialists. This is the case for rheumatologists in many parts of the US as well. I know for a fact that there are excellent rheumatologists in the UK because I have worked with them in medical conferences and organizations to which I’ve belonged.

I would suggest a couple of things. Try to get in with a rheumatologist, and consider speaking once again with your primary care provider and emphasize with them the impact this is having on an important part of your life. At minimum, x-rays of your hands and some blood tests are necessary. Diagnostic ultrasound has become part of the evaluation as well. It can take a few attempts to accurately diagnose arthritis, and yes, there are many different types of arthritis, not just the four mentioned on this thread. There are so many non-drug interventions, including occupational therapy, supplements, exercise, and weight loss that would be applicable. (To date, weight loss is the only intervention that has been shown to delay the progression of osteoarthritis. This is most likely related to the inflammatory compounds produced by active fat cells.) we are expanding our understanding of osteoarthritis, which is not an autoimmune disease but does have important inflammatory underpinnings. It’s definitely not just wear and tear.

Paracetamol (Acetaminophen) is probably the safest drug to try for arthritis pain. For many people, it can work better when taking a regular daily dose than taken as needed.

Nonsteroidals have important toxicities and need to be monitored with occasional bloodwork in my opinion, at least when taking on a daily basis. But there are quite a few of them now, some of which are designed to be easier on the gastrointestinal tract.

 

[Ric5]

As others have said, turmeric (curcumin) for sure, but remember it's a root, a food, and in no way harmful, so make sure you take a lot of it! You'll be amazed and you won't need NSAIDS. just my opinion.

Turmeric can yellow your teeth ... so you may want to take it in pill form to avoid that

 

[Ric5]

Gundry's books and youtube videos helped me a lot. His supplements are very pricey and several of them actually trigger inflammation for me.

Also I do organic gardening and I was using pyrethrin oil to kill bugs, well it turns out I react badly to that oil.

I take a lot of supplements, and many had rice bran or rice flour and I react badly to that so I eliminated those supplements.

And any kind of peppers, and black pepper triggers an inflammation response for me.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

There are a lot of medical problems way more complicated than heart surgery as well.
US medicine pays a lot of money for doing - procedures, surgeries, diagnostics. Doctors don’t get paid well to research and really think about what is going on. They only get paid if they are seeing people. Thinking requires after hours work and the drivers there are typically internal, not external (money). In my world, the doctors taking time to think is shrinking rapidly, its sad to see.

I've noticed this as well. I had one of the last of the "old school" family doctors. He figured stuff out on his own. He could do some very minor procedures in his office that now require seeing a specialist. But I don't blame the doctors. They are guided by this thing called Standard of Care. If you think a doctor isn't doing something properly, you have to establish that he didn't meet the Standard of Care. This is brought on by the high number of people who think doctors are easy targets for fat lawsuits. You might blame the lawyers then, but they are just the middle man. As is the case with so many things in this country, it is the way it is because of the collective actions, or inactions of the people.

 

[Paul New]

I rarely call out comments here, but that’s patently false. There is support in the medical literature for an anti-inflammatory diet in helping to manage pain and reduce inflammatory markers in both inflammatory and non-inflammatory arthritis. Think primarily plant-based, low in saturated fats and meat.

I am a board certified physician in the US. My best advice is to see a doctor and get a solid diagnosis. Curcumin (turmeric) does have some supporting evidence, but don’t be fooled into thinking that supplements are free of side effects. It does appear to be safer than nonsteroidals but can have some adverse effects and drug interactions, so again, get good medical advice for medical problems.

OP, good luck getting this sorted out and feel better soon!

Thanks for your response, Doc. I know that a healthy diet can help and typical
Western diets are associated with inflammation. What I was trying to warn against was hucksters like Grundy telling people to avoid nuts and tomatoes but buy their expensive suppliments and everything will be fine.

Better to start with a physician.

 

[TyBo]

Gundry's books and youtube videos helped me a lot. His supplements are very pricey and several of them actually trigger inflammation for me.

Also I do organic gardening and I was using pyrethrin oil to kill bugs, well it turns out I react badly to that oil.

I take a lot of supplements, and many had rice bran or rice flour and I react badly to that so I eliminated those supplements.

And any kind of peppers, and black pepper triggers an inflammation response for me.

Some people find Gundry helpful. On the other hand, his whole thing about lectins is completely unsupported, no evidence or studies behind it, and it flies in the face of the way some of the healthiest and longest living people in the world eat. Beans (lectins there) are staples for many of these populations, for example. And ... lectins are broken down when cooked, so ... .

Sorry for the mini-hijack, felt the need to put that out there. Not looking to pursue this line, now back to arthritis. Which fortunately I haven't had, myself. Yet. I've had other issues. You hang around long enough, stuff can happen. Modern medicine can be useful to address a lot of it.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Wishing you the best OP. I was just diagnosed with diffuse idiopathic skeletal hyperostosis (DISH). So, I'm in chronic pain always. NSAIDs do help a little but for me, but they're not a miracle drug. I'm currently going through PT and doing exercises at home. I'm also trying to change my diet and lose some more weight. Hopefully, that will lesson the symptoms. But as a 50-year-old, I can't imagine living like this for another 20-25 years--if I even last that long.

Wow! I spent a lot of time with chronic pain until they got my RA under control. But just the name of your condition makes it sound a lot worse. Hope that turns out not to be so and they can have similar results for your condition.
Hang in as best you can.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Naproxen should only be taken intermittently, it is terrible for your kidneys and Liver and you need to also take Omeprazole to stop it giving you stomach ulcers and damaging the lining of your stomach. Not a drug to take long term. Naproxen has a much longer half life than ibruprofen, so it is very effective, but it can lead to irreversible damage to your liver (especially if you drink) and kidneys. I suggest you get checked out by your doctor and only use Naproxen occasionally, and with something to protect your stomach.

To the OP. Osteo and Rheumatoid Arthritis are totally different, find out which you have. Eat healthy, get plenty of sleep, be active and keep the weight down.

I have Psoriatic Arthritis, which is similar to Rheumatoid. It developed from regular Psoriasis and a year or so ago I was prescribed a Biologic treatment.
I had been taking Naproxen 500mg twice a day (before I knew how toxic it was). The Biologic is self injected every two weeks and has been a miracle for me. Thankfully I hadn't sustained significant joint damage and my symptoms literally stopped the first day of taking the Biologic. Thankfully I get this free in the UK, as its hideously expensive. Good luck!

For those who respond well to biologics, it almost seems as if some one flipped the off switch. It took trying three biologics to find the right one for me. Not all of them work the same way. So for anyone going that route, be patient. They might not work at all, they might work for a while then stop working. But there are a lot of options these days. Considering I started on 12-15 aspirin a day, being in a drug trial, and even taking Gold as a treatment, (I cried every time I took a leak ) these biologics are as close to a wonder drug as you get. I started on monthly infusions at a doctor's office, then went to weekly self injections when the same drug came out in that form. Since retiring, I'm back on monthly infusions as that method is covered much better under Medicare. Unfortunately, the RA has recently become just a sideshow in my medical circus. Pressing on though.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

For those who respond well to biologics, it almost seems as if some one flipped the off switch. It took trying three biologics to find the right one for me. Not all of them work the same way. So for anyone going that route, be patient. They might not work at all, they might work for a while then stop working. But there are a lot of options these days. Considering I started on 12-15 aspirin a day, being in a drug trial, and even taking Gold as a treatment, (I cried every time I took a leak ) these biologics are as close to a wonder drug as you get. I started on monthly infusions at a doctor's office, then went to weekly self injections when the same drug came out in that form. Since retiring, I'm back on monthly infusions as that method is covered much better under Medicare. Unfortunately, the RA has recently become just a sideshow in my medical circus. Pressing on though.

Thank you for being in those clinical trials! I'm glad you found an effective treatment for your RA. Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials are really the best way to determine effectiveness of any therapy. To the participant, it offers opportunity to try new therapies, sometimes years before they are available to the public. But it takes courage to sign up for a drug that has had limited testing in humans, so kudos to you!

Your post points out a couple of important reasons to get a diagnosis that is as accurate as possible: specific therapies are available for different types of arthritis, and the risks of other organ system involvement in autoimmune arthritis. Thanks for sharing your story!

Rock on, OGB!

 

[Ric5]

Some people find Gundry helpful. On the other hand, his whole thing about lectins is completely unsupported, no evidence or studies behind it, and it flies in the face of the way some of the healthiest and longest living people in the world eat. Beans (lectins there) are staples for many of these populations, for example. And ... lectins are broken down when cooked, so ... .

Sorry for the mini-hijack, felt the need to put that out there. Not looking to pursue this line, now back to arthritis. Which fortunately I haven't had, myself. Yet. I've had other issues. You hang around long enough, stuff can happen. Modern medicine can be useful to address a lot of it.

Gundry's yes no list has helped me immensely, There are a couple things on his no list that I tolerate and a few things on his yes list that kill me. He is a little too into reducing protean and sugars for my taste. Also many of his expensive supplements actually made me worse. But like I said before, his yes no list on foods really helped me a lot.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I have some osteoarthritis, it runs in my family. I manage on occasional use of codeine/paracetamol, single dose per day, used before activity when I know there will be pain, but I wait for an hour so my brain adapts to it before trying the activity that causes pain. Paracetamol is not good for the liver, so if you ever need it to be regular, go with DrThumpenstein's advice and get some checkup that lets you know if you're safe to use it more than a minimal and occasional use. AFTER anything that has caused pain and inflammation I will sometimes use ibuprofen, because I have learned that like allergies, breaking the cycle with a brief intervention can help avoid the need for prolonged dosing. I ran that notion by a doctor after having figured it out by my own observations (and a similar situation with fluticasone furoate for hay-fever like symptoms). He agreed, and said that similar self-perpetuating feedbacks exist in the body, and many conditions arise purely because easy regulation has failed to work. I back off on all such meds when possible, they tend to work better when I need them next if I do that.

Regarding asking for medical advice online, I have had doctors tell me it's fine, if we're careful. They're all for INFORMED consent, and they like it when we make the effort, and it certainly beats being inundated with the 'worried well'!

Last but not least, if in doubt, and a doctor isn't helping, get a second opinion! You may NEED a diagnosis, likely also an X-ray. At that point you're free to accept advice or treatment as you decide, or to refuse it outright, but whatever you do, you need as much certainty in diagnosis as you can get before that kind of decision, even if it's just to narrow the range of advice given by most medical sites out there.

And if an actual doctor is posting HERE, all to the better, we're damn lucky to get anything like a house call these days.

Afterthought: if you buy oranges in bulk for saving money, maybe avoid that, I discovered that too many oranges WILL provoke some excruciating pain in existing arthritic joints. No-one told me about this, but I learned after three boxes over two years, that the timing of events was undeniable. If I moderate the oranges, there is never that kind of pain. I was told that food sources of purines were a thing to watch, but I love marmite and never got pain after it, but oranges were a different matter. I don't go with hugely complex dietary advice, we're born to be omnivores, but it's worth avoiding any proven specific once you discover one. Oranges may be fine for you, but something else may not be.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Small extra post:
Black pepper, (piperine) is an agonist for the brain converting codeine to morphine. How useful that info is I don't know, but it might help someone who is trying to minimise a codeine dose and still get some mileage out of it.