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Double Bass Audio Sprockets ToneDexter
- Thread starter jarrodtravis
- Start date
You can always try! What I’ve found, especially at the beginning, was that experimentation was key. To me, the density (for lack of a better term), of the training material seemed key to producing a good WaveMap. When I train pizz only, the complexity of the notes just isn’t there. Mind you, I’m playing a plywood bass. I can only imagine the success with a great bass.
On that same thought, if you don’t like the sound of your guts bowed, then this may not be a guaranteed success either. It really just takes your pickup signal, imparts the WaveMap and makes it sound like your bass with the mic/position you’ve created the WaveMap with. Careful mic placement and choice to get the results your after is going to take some time. And, I've found that what I’ve played has been far more important than how I’ve played it during training.
The beauty of this device is that you’re no longer pigeonholed into a static setup. You can try new mics, positions, bass setups, over years of experimentation and can possibly achieve better and better results. Not to mention that James and the folks at AudioSprockets continue to update and innovate on the software side.
Well........... Although I do enjoy the Tonedexter and think it is a really useful little box, I come up a bit short of finding it more versatile than the Felix. The sound of the Tonedexter is not just varied by the mic you train it with, but also by the pickup you use. I have yet to find a pickup that has both an arco response and a pizz response that feels right. My favorite arco pickup by far is the Stat-b. Meanwhile I prefer something a little more linear for pizz. With the Felix I can easily combine 2 pickups with different characteristics and blend them however I wish, and that is how I use it. It is super easy to deal with different rooms and change my bass’s responce in lots of ways. I can also use any mic I have for recording and the Felix sounds fantastic. It is a fantastic and versatile piece of gear.
The Tonedexter is a great little box, but in my experience not quite as versatile. Better at some things (sounding more like a mic than the straight pickup) but also not as easy to deal with in some rooms. The maps that I have made all sound great in headphones, a few of them sound great at gigs, and only one or two really work for me when the volume goes up. Sometimes there can be an artificial high end that has been mentioned and it will really bug me. It’s like a trade for getting rid of one annoying thing (quack) but gaining another. Using just the map with character knob full right usually sounds best when I am alone and playing fairly quiet. It will feed back sooner than the straight pickup ( yes, you CAN get feedback! FAR less than a mic, but more than the pickup would by itself) and it also can get lost a bit with drums or in a live sounding room. I have yet to play a gig without backing off on the character. Being able to go even farther and dial in more of the pickup sound is a fantastic update and I most often end up doing just that. The only downside is that the straight pickup sound is not as good through the tonedexter as it is through the Felix (nor should it be as that is not what it is designed to do) so if I am running it that way I end up missing the Felix.
I think the Tonedexter is a great little box and is only getting better as things keep developing (I would still prefer a HPF instead of the bass knob, maybe some day that will get changed!) and I use it quite a lot ( I play about 1/4 of my gigs acoustically and the rest are split between the Felix and the Tonedexter). It generally goes out with my Kolstein travel bass and works really great, I think that bass is more fun to play than ever. I would not hesitate to encourage anyone interested to check it out. I am just not doing the same backflips about the thing that statsc and flat seem to be.
The Tonedexter is a great little box, but in my experience not quite as versatile. Better at some things (sounding more like a mic than the straight pickup) but also not as easy to deal with in some rooms. The maps that I have made all sound great in headphones, a few of them sound great at gigs, and only one or two really work for me when the volume goes up. Sometimes there can be an artificial high end that has been mentioned and it will really bug me. It’s like a trade for getting rid of one annoying thing (quack) but gaining another. Using just the map with character knob full right usually sounds best when I am alone and playing fairly quiet. It will feed back sooner than the straight pickup ( yes, you CAN get feedback! FAR less than a mic, but more than the pickup would by itself) and it also can get lost a bit with drums or in a live sounding room. I have yet to play a gig without backing off on the character. Being able to go even farther and dial in more of the pickup sound is a fantastic update and I most often end up doing just that. The only downside is that the straight pickup sound is not as good through the tonedexter as it is through the Felix (nor should it be as that is not what it is designed to do) so if I am running it that way I end up missing the Felix.
I think the Tonedexter is a great little box and is only getting better as things keep developing (I would still prefer a HPF instead of the bass knob, maybe some day that will get changed!) and I use it quite a lot ( I play about 1/4 of my gigs acoustically and the rest are split between the Felix and the Tonedexter). It generally goes out with my Kolstein travel bass and works really great, I think that bass is more fun to play than ever. I would not hesitate to encourage anyone interested to check it out. I am just not doing the same backflips about the thing that statsc and flat seem to be.
Chris, I gotta agree with you on all counts. It is harder to hear a mic like sound when it is blending into an ensemble, there is that weird artificial thing ( It seems to disappear 10 feet out mostly though) and there are (in my limited experience) resonances that can get a little unwieldy. I am not a purist (I do love to play with a hard pickup tone in some situations) But the combination of features (the character/pickupblend knob, the different mics, etc) and the simplicity just have me. I may find gigs where I cant use it (truth is though, hold down the mute button and you get BYPASS which is a totally unmolested pickup sound which can be useful when the resonances suddenly get weird)
Everyone's opinions shared thus far mostly echo my general experience. I've been using it with my Kolstein Busetto bass (I can't say enough good things about that genius little instrument!) I've had it for about two and a half weeks and the Tone Dexter for about 6 weeks. For general purpose playing, I've been thrilled with the wave Maps I created using my Kolstein Gasparo DaSalo. They really translate well to the little bass, too.
I currently have Planet Wing pickups on both of those instruments, and I'm considering fitting one on my 40's American Standard for a thumpy pizz wave map and my old French Bass so I can make some heavy duty Arco wave Maps. The potential for crosspollinating is so wild.
Above all else, The primary reason I like the tone Dexter is that it lets you play the pizzicato boom of the basses body...not the zing of the pickup. It's subtle, but makes the music feel so much more comfy and settled to me. I play a great deal of Duo where I sing while I play, so I'll take any help I can get making the music feel solid.
Amplified Arco is a huge improvement in sound and feel as well.
I was very skeptical at first, thinking ithat was a gimmick. After 6 weeks and a few dozen jobs, the Tone Dexter makes me more comfortable and sound better, and that's all that my band mates and audience care about.
My best results thus far have been training with a ksm8 shure dynamic -- grace felix -- tone dexter.
Live - I've enjoyed the Tone Dexter flat from the XLR out into one channel of my Acoustic Image. I then high pass and eq to taste from the AI into an MAS 45.
Other microphones I've tried so far have been an AMT, a rode nt2, and a rode m5. They all proved to be a bit more thin and brittle sounding than the shure. Once I feel a little more educated about the tone Dexter, I'm going to plunk down some bread for some studio time with some heavy-duty mics and pres.
Really advanced product!
I currently have Planet Wing pickups on both of those instruments, and I'm considering fitting one on my 40's American Standard for a thumpy pizz wave map and my old French Bass so I can make some heavy duty Arco wave Maps. The potential for crosspollinating is so wild.
Above all else, The primary reason I like the tone Dexter is that it lets you play the pizzicato boom of the basses body...not the zing of the pickup. It's subtle, but makes the music feel so much more comfy and settled to me. I play a great deal of Duo where I sing while I play, so I'll take any help I can get making the music feel solid.
Amplified Arco is a huge improvement in sound and feel as well.
I was very skeptical at first, thinking ithat was a gimmick. After 6 weeks and a few dozen jobs, the Tone Dexter makes me more comfortable and sound better, and that's all that my band mates and audience care about.
My best results thus far have been training with a ksm8 shure dynamic -- grace felix -- tone dexter.
Live - I've enjoyed the Tone Dexter flat from the XLR out into one channel of my Acoustic Image. I then high pass and eq to taste from the AI into an MAS 45.
Other microphones I've tried so far have been an AMT, a rode nt2, and a rode m5. They all proved to be a bit more thin and brittle sounding than the shure. Once I feel a little more educated about the tone Dexter, I'm going to plunk down some bread for some studio time with some heavy-duty mics and pres.
Really advanced product!
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Yeah, and one note for improvement: The HPF thing is super important. It would be great to have it in the box instead of the bass knob. I use the HPF on my AI focus amp and it really makes a huge difference. THere can be A LOT of fat bass response. One way to deal is to dial back in the pickup (like someone said above 80% mic or more is great, but if you leave it at all mic sound and then use the HPF you can get the control back and really nice sounds. Im finding that some of the WM's I've made sound great so long as they have a fairly steep HPF.
It would be great if the HPF was a filter that could be altered in an update thru software. That would be so great and would be much better then the Bass eq. Flat is mostly great but that HPF is super important with mic sounds even though they have done a great job of managing the Feedback in their magic....
It would be great if the HPF was a filter that could be altered in an update thru software. That would be so great and would be much better then the Bass eq. Flat is mostly great but that HPF is super important with mic sounds even though they have done a great job of managing the Feedback in their magic....
Agree regarding the occasional boominess. Either engage the HPF or add a little more pick-up and turn down the volume a bit.
played the worst room last night: concert in a big glass and concrete building where every sound had an afterlife the went on forever. We were playing Brazilian music in a quintet with vocals and flute going thru a big PA. I had the MAS 16 aimed straight up and I really wanted to have the TD work well and it did. Just having the one knob to futz with (I set the WM and HPF where I wanted it) allowed me to quickly (once we got up and firing) dial a little pickup back in for clarity, and then not touch anything for the rest of the night. Sweet. I thought surely in this room I'd feel I had to bypass it and go with straight pickup.
Hey @flatback; thanks for the "saturation" suggestion by turning up the output level of of the ToneDexter; definitely adds some more "warmth" to the sound!
Had a nice email exchange with James today. He is going to look into making the bass knob (I personally never INCREASE bass but subtract it) a HPF apparently it can be done thru software. For me that would be great, imminently useful and converting a knob I don't use to one I would use. I am looking for ways to just use the TD into a powered speaker. Having the HPF in the TD would go along way toward that. He was curious what the range should be but I dont know range. I know that I have to turn the HPF up higher with the fat mic sounds of the TD and that just makes the woodiness come out more. Anybody prefer the bass knob being bass?
Regarding HPF parameters, I suggest reading through High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread
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Somewhere in the 25-180hz range would be in the ballpark. In the end, it's just a "turn this knob until it sounds best" kinda thing, so there's no harm if there's a little play on either end.
I would definitly prefer the bass knob as a hpf! I feel like I might be cutting too many frequencies with just a shelving eq, rather cut from below up to where I need.
Huh. I usually end up boosting the bottom a few dB. I usually add a couple dB of both top and bottom to make a smiley curve that seems to add some nice depth and warmth. It’s the notch that I can’t find a use for. It doesn’t really clean anything up for me. I’d rather see that turned into a HPF if needed.
It’s kinda funny, but I’ve never had the need for a HPF in-line since the Dex. My cabinets are super controlled now, and any tonal issues I have are higher than I’d want to take the HPF should I feel the need to attack it (and higher than the notch parameters as well).
What about a function where boosted, the LF corner on the bass pot (encoder?) stays as is, but as you turn CCW it brings in a variable HPF. Not sure what’s possible, but that’s a best of both worlds kinda thing that I can get behind. My present amp has the bass control centred at 30 (it stays at 12 o’clock at all times), so it’s not much use. I’d much rather use the well placed shelf James and crew employed in the Dex.
It’s kinda funny, but I’ve never had the need for a HPF in-line since the Dex. My cabinets are super controlled now, and any tonal issues I have are higher than I’d want to take the HPF should I feel the need to attack it (and higher than the notch parameters as well).
What about a function where boosted, the LF corner on the bass pot (encoder?) stays as is, but as you turn CCW it brings in a variable HPF. Not sure what’s possible, but that’s a best of both worlds kinda thing that I can get behind. My present amp has the bass control centred at 30 (it stays at 12 o’clock at all times), so it’s not much use. I’d much rather use the well placed shelf James and crew employed in the Dex.
I forgot about the notch knob. Yeah I never use the notch filter. I have played with it on the TD and it does not really have an effect on the WM's I have. I would totally go for THAT knob being the HPF. Yeah just because I don't need to boost bass does not mean that someone else wont. Basses are all different. Pickups and amps and all have so many different characteristics...
I am enamored of the TD and my small bass. When I plug in the big Tyrol it is like thunder squared.
I know I've said this but I really dig the Electronic Feng Shui of how it works so far at gigs. The knobs are all self correcting (if you turn it to 80%pick up, it finds that number and then goes back to showing you the WM, and the FONT size is huge so you can see quickly and easily (tuning too is easy and so great not to depend on an iphone mic.)
I am enamored of the TD and my small bass. When I plug in the big Tyrol it is like thunder squared.
I know I've said this but I really dig the Electronic Feng Shui of how it works so far at gigs. The knobs are all self correcting (if you turn it to 80%pick up, it finds that number and then goes back to showing you the WM, and the FONT size is huge so you can see quickly and easily (tuning too is easy and so great not to depend on an iphone mic.)
I agree, don't use the notch at all, might be a good spot for hpf if possible.
