Audition process pet peeve

[boombloom]

Most of my active playing years were in bluegrass where there is an established canon and plenty of music in the common repertoire for auditions. In addition the role of the bass in the bluegrass ensemble is highly formulaic. Filling that role well gets the gigs. Note for note isn't necessary.

 

[Giraffe]

In many circles, that is the part where they want to "see if you can play."

Refuse to play, and you are out the door immediately. If you are not confident enough to play unfamiliar material, you are probably not much of a player. If you are dictating what you will and won't do in an audition, you are clearly a diva or head case or poser or otherwise inadequate.

Dave Holland tells a hilarious story about his audition for Miles' seminal fusion band in the late '60's. He showed up at the address for the audition, and the rest of the band was already there. He walked in, and nobody said a word to him. No one even acknowledged his presence! He was The Invisible Man! They all just totally ignored him.

After a long, awkward spell, Miles walked in. Without saying a word to anyone, Miles kicked off the band. They were playing this new music, that no one was really familiar with, and Holland was expected to play off the top of his head.

Holland said he just grabbed what little he knew, and tried to keep up! As we all know, he got the gig, and his career really took off, as he made connections that kept him busy for the rest of his life!

I'll bet the story would have been a lot different if he had "refused" to play unfamiliar material. Who gets away with that?!?!

 

[mr80htz]

I need a little insight with the audition process for joining a band. First, my general view and thought process:

I look at an audition the same way I look at an interview for a job: you have some ideas of what you are getting into (job description), you prepare some material (resume), you perform with the band (interviewer ask questions), then you socialize and see if your personality is cohesive enough with everyone else. This might be over more than one meeting, but you get the idea.

I pride myself on being prepared for auditions, and I generally learn everything by ear and notate it out, note for note. Later on after getting the feel for the song I might change things up and interprete it in my own way. I will learn the songs that are given to me for the audition, and that's that.

Now here is my pet peeve. Without fail, most auditions I've had and ones I've participated in when auditioning other musicians, inevitably leads to this scenario: we play the tunes, and it goes smoothly. After covering all the audition songs, the bandleader suggests "hey, let's do these tunes." Or, "hey, do you know these other tunes? No? Okay, well let's jam through them. You'll pick them up." Okay, guy. So, you asked me to learn songs for the audition, and now you just expect me to fumble my way through some tunes I don't know? Oh yeah, this is a great use of everyone's time.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm often inclined to respond with "why don't I just learn these other tunes at home on my own time [because I value people's time], come back and then play them? That way they sound better, and we don't waste anyone's time."

On the other hand, I understand maybe they want to see how someone does when they are put on the spot and are forced to improvise. I don't feel like this is as good of an approach when you are playing cover songs, since fumbling through something doesn't do the song justice. I really try to avoid the "jam" crowd of players that don't prepare for gigs and just show up thinking they can "play by ear" and just embrace mediocrity.

Am I in the minority in this situation? How many of you have experienced this, and what was your response?

I have to note that also, I have learned from this and have taken the initiative to learn 2 - 3 songs from the band's repertoire that they don't suggest for the audition, expecting this scenario above to occur.

Just relax and go with the flow. It's known that you don't know the song.

 

[Ron Berenato]

When I first got into playing, we had lengthy jam sessions where guitarists would call a song and the rest of us (bass & drums) would fall in. It got to the point that I felt very comfortable playing by ear and could pick up most songs after a few bars. Since I am not the most technically brilliant player that was the highlight of my abilities. I would welcome the chance to show that I can jump in and hang on - as long as the auditioners were realistic in their expectations.

 

[fhm555]

I"ve saved myself wasted time asking for a setlist with keys and which versions are preferred. I work best with a vocal track accompanied by a flattop guitar, or lyrics with the chord changes over the words, or spaces, where they occur. I answered an ad for blues and r&r but the list had one song (Stormy Monday) that was close, everything else was narcoleptic teen pop. If I try out for a band I'm ready to meet any reasonable request, even if I have to tell them I'm not familiar with the tune they called. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. As a hobbyist I'm aware of where I am in the food chain so I tend to not bother people looking for quick transition into working, or already working. I've never auditioned bass players but I've seen a lot of guitarists and drummers. Most of that stuff I left completely to my brother. It was his band so I told him in any group decision, he had two votes.
That said, one band I was in started every practice with the drummer working out on something, then we'd fall in as we got tuned up. A lot of those turned into short jams to open and close sets, so the ability to work without a net is valuable in some situations.
If I thought I had a shot at an opportunity I was interested in I'd rather try and fail than not try at all. The most helpful thing for me is most of those opportunities come through people I've known or played with for a long time so they know me better than I do and I hope they wouldn't send me into a slaughter.

 

[RGerhart]

OP: If this band is a working band that plays the standard pop music rep, you should be familiar enough with everything to make it through basically anything. If you're not familiar with something, watch the guitar player's hands, or the keys player if he gives you some roots in the left hand (without being that keys player we all hate who pounds on the low end). If you're trying to make money with this band and this is something that freaks you out, you might be in the wrong place.

If they throw you a more obscure song with a bunch of key changes or unison stuff . . . then maybe they're being dicks. But if they're not, and you can't hang, then you can't hang. I would say that your attitude, if applied to a professional band setting, is a bad attitude and will get you fired in two seconds. If this is just something you want to do for fun, and either you don't want to be flexible or you don't have the ear to do the job, then I'd say move on unless you're open to an attitude adjustment. If, as you say, most auditions go this way, then you have to stop auditioning or do the work you need to do in order to succeed. Of course, maybe you're auditioning for crappy bands. In that case, my advice is . . . . . well, why?

I actually used to think similarly to the way you think now. I'd learn the bare minimum, and assume that was enough. IT'S NOT. Once I asked around for a bunch of set lists and saw how much music I really ought to know, I locked myself away and practiced/transcribed/memorized my ass off. And that led to a lot of (and increasingly better) opportunities.

I understand that bands want to see how someone does in a setting where they are put on the spot, which I can accommodate just fine, though I prefer not to. I guess my issue is that I feel that my time is better spent on learning the songs at home, and coming back to the band with a polished playthrough. Context is key, as some have pointed out. I've got a full-time job, a family, and about four or five bands I'm in already. So "jamming" on some unfamiliar material is low on my priority list. To me, professionalism is coming prepared, and yes, being flexible is also valuable. Being flexible to me is changing keys for the singer; or changing the feel for the drummer; or the arrangement so the guitar player can get his extra solo in. That's flexibility for me.

Learning the bare minimum is a thing of the past. Because of this reocurring scenario, I now learn the minimum songs suggested for the audition, plus two or three more on a setlist.

 

[LBS-bass]

I’m seeing a lot of bass machismo in this thread. As if it’s a given that a.) playing music means playing standards, b.) playing well = being able to play anything, and c.) that throwing random songs at someone is a valid test of musicianship.

I back up a lot of singer-songwriters. I work hard to realize their vision, which sometimes means something more than the most obvious jump-in-and-play-by-ear choices. Their songs aren’t familiar standards, and often quirky in their own way. My attunement is to their individuality, which perhaps means my ear isn’t as well-honed as other players.

I recently had a successful audition with an all-original band, anchored by an incredibly talented singer-songwriter. I showed up ready to play four of their songs, one of which was a song in development which allowed me to demonstrate my original bassline writing skills. If they had broken into a jam or Mustang Sally, I’d have been annoyed: that’s not what I was there for. Different music, different demands, folks.

It's typical TalkBass, the assumption that everyone here should be playing at a certain level and willing to bend over backwards in any situation regardless of their own needs or requirements.

I haven't done a "true" audition for a few years, but I remember the times I did when I was new to the scene around here. Nowadays I get jobs by word of mouth or through networking at higher level jams. I can empathize with some of the players who are just getting their feet wet or getting out there again. Even though I haven't done an audition, per se, in a long time, tonight I've got a bunch of people coming over here, most of whom I've never met, to go over some songs I'm learning for a show in December. I was told by the BL, who recruited me, that "final say" on who gets the chair goes to the drummer, who will be here tonight, but I don't think there's really anyone else on the sidelines waiting to see if I pass muster or not. The BL knows me, knows how I play, and both he and I are confident that the drummer will be happy. That's about as much auditioning as I ever do nowadays.

As for hanging with other players on short notice, I have a show in two weeks and I will likely just show up with a book of my own notes and play, having never met anyone except that BL. I have a high degree of confidence that I can make good decisions on the fly; most common music is painfully predictable. It's mostly blues so not a tough row to hoe.

BUT for the purposes of this thread and the variety of people who are here reading, it's not always that simple and I like to be mindful of the fact that we have beginners here, and people who haven't been exposed to "all the standards" (whatever that means; none of the bands I play with have much repertoire in common). For most people it's intimidating to be asked to do things they haven't prepared for. I was like that for years. I needed a lot of experience to become comfortable doing what I do.

My very first audition in this town was much like what you describe, an originals band, and I had learned their songs from online recordings, walked in, we played through everything without stopping, and when we were finished there was plenty of time on the clock so they asked me if I wanted to play some covers and I said "yes," so we did that. I didn't take it as a challenge, it just seemed that they'd enjoyed playing with me and didn't want me to leave, and I didn't leave for four years. Well, I went home, but you know what I'm saying

Sometimes it's about other stuff, but if you walk in and nail the stuff they asked you to learn you're never going to disappoint anyone, and if you're doing things at the level where improvisation is requested or required you'll probably know that before you ever go in, because they'll tell you.

 

[Ron Berenato]

I would be totally psyched if you started playing 21 Century Schizoid man.

Wow that brings me back.
In my very first band, that was the first song I had to learn. It threw me but I learned it and I had never heard the song before. This was in '79 and I was in the 10th grade.

 

[Yellow Bang66]

I need a little insight with the audition process for joining a band. First, my general view and thought process:

I look at an audition the same way I look at an interview for a job: you have some ideas of what you are getting into (job description), you prepare some material (resume), you perform with the band (interviewer ask questions), then you socialize and see if your personality is cohesive enough with everyone else. This might be over more than one meeting, but you get the idea.

I pride myself on being prepared for auditions, and I generally learn everything by ear and notate it out, note for note. Later on after getting the feel for the song I might change things up and interprete it in my own way. I will learn the songs that are given to me for the audition, and that's that.

Now here is my pet peeve. Without fail, most auditions I've had and ones I've participated in when auditioning other musicians, inevitably leads to this scenario: we play the tunes, and it goes smoothly. After covering all the audition songs, the bandleader suggests "hey, let's do these tunes." Or, "hey, do you know these other tunes? No? Okay, well let's jam through them. You'll pick them up." Okay, guy. So, you asked me to learn songs for the audition, and now you just expect me to fumble my way through some tunes I don't know? Oh yeah, this is a great use of everyone's time.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm often inclined to respond with "why don't I just learn these other tunes at home on my own time [because I value people's time], come back and then play them? That way they sound better, and we don't waste anyone's time."

On the other hand, I understand maybe they want to see how someone does when they are put on the spot and are forced to improvise. I don't feel like this is as good of an approach when you are playing cover songs, since fumbling through something doesn't do the song justice. I really try to avoid the "jam" crowd of players that don't prepare for gigs and just show up thinking they can "play by ear" and just embrace mediocrity.

Am I in the minority in this situation? How many of you have experienced this, and what was your response?

I have to note that also, I have learned from this and have taken the initiative to learn 2 - 3 songs from the band's repertoire that they don't suggest for the audition, expecting this scenario above to occur.

It happens, Ive been put on the spot almost everytime! with The old "lets go over some of our Originals! Just try and keep up!" when i was first starting out I got ask to sit in alot. granted i didnt know many songs, But i was pretty good at picking up stuff& following along, But I was too green,to really know what was going on! I d mess up the changes cause I was just starting. it was my major weakness as I had a hard time counting parts out! but because I could Follow pretty well guys would keep asking me Back! one of the perks of being 1 of a few bass players in my area! So I got used to "faking it" & following along! I prefer them giving me their set list with a few to audition for! that way I can get a feel of what theyre looking for! plus I can go over their set while i wait! but it seems inevitable they'll throw a curve& call an audible! I helps them get a feel for you as a player& how you handle pressure! not a bad tactic,but kind of shady. I once went on a audition & i'll say i passed the 1st part (songs i was told to learn) then failed the curve ball;a classic rock band, "Lets play some disco!" I wasn't prepared; then The 'ol "our originals" ploy. Disappointed, I didnt get a call back. I learned the BL was writing songs for his demo, so i figured he was looking for ideas! it happens, so I say just practice your best & be prepared for any curve balls with the time you got left. And try to communicate with the member you know best what to expect. GL

 

[logdrum]

As someone who did a lot of pickup gigs when I was active and younger and also because I prefer to play jazz, I voted number 3. Sometimes this has not been to my advantage though.

 

[legalbass]

On the other hand, I understand maybe they want to see how someone does when they are put on the spot and are forced to improvise.

It might not even be about the ability to improvise musically at all. A classic job interview technique is to put the interviewee in a situation designed to make them feel uncomfortable so that the interviewer can test the interviewee's temperament under pressure. The "right" response is far less important in such circumstances than the ability of the interviewee to maintain their composure and keep cool.

 

[RGerhart]

It might not even be about the ability to improvise musically at all. A classic job interview technique is to put the interviewee in a situation designed to make them feel uncomfortable so that the interviewer can test the interviewee's temperament under pressure. The "right" response is far less important in such circumstances than the ability of the interviewee to maintain their composure and keep cool.

Good point!

 

[sean_on_bass]

I need a little insight with the audition process for joining a band. First, my general view and thought process:

I look at an audition the same way I look at an interview for a job: you have some ideas of what you are getting into (job description), you prepare some material (resume), you perform with the band (interviewer ask questions), then you socialize and see if your personality is cohesive enough with everyone else. This might be over more than one meeting, but you get the idea.

I pride myself on being prepared for auditions, and I generally learn everything by ear and notate it out, note for note. Later on after getting the feel for the song I might change things up and interprete it in my own way. I will learn the songs that are given to me for the audition, and that's that.

Now here is my pet peeve. Without fail, most auditions I've had and ones I've participated in when auditioning other musicians, inevitably leads to this scenario: we play the tunes, and it goes smoothly. After covering all the audition songs, the bandleader suggests "hey, let's do these tunes." Or, "hey, do you know these other tunes? No? Okay, well let's jam through them. You'll pick them up." Okay, guy. So, you asked me to learn songs for the audition, and now you just expect me to fumble my way through some tunes I don't know? Oh yeah, this is a great use of everyone's time.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm often inclined to respond with "why don't I just learn these other tunes at home on my own time [because I value people's time], come back and then play them? That way they sound better, and we don't waste anyone's time."

On the other hand, I understand maybe they want to see how someone does when they are put on the spot and are forced to improvise. I don't feel like this is as good of an approach when you are playing cover songs, since fumbling through something doesn't do the song justice. I really try to avoid the "jam" crowd of players that don't prepare for gigs and just show up thinking they can "play by ear" and just embrace mediocrity.

Am I in the minority in this situation? How many of you have experienced this, and what was your response?

I have to note that also, I have learned from this and have taken the initiative to learn 2 - 3 songs from the band's repertoire that they don't suggest for the audition, expecting this scenario above to occur.

I was raised on jam band music, so this wouldn't be an issue for me at all to try to hear my way through some music. While i know this is some people's worse nightmare, the tough love side of me thinks they need to learn to get over the hump and embrace the chaos. They will be better, more flexible musicians for it. In fact, if i were a band leader, i would only hire people that can quickly catch onto a songs harmony and feel without needing to do the homework. I also would want to hire people that are at least semi familiar with alot of different music so that they already know what songs in the genre sound like before they attempt to play them for the first time. If people aren't willing to try a song, and require homework, i kind of lose respect for their musicianship a bit.

 

[LBS-bass]

if i were a band leader, i would only hire people that can quickly catch onto a songs harmony and feel without needing to do the homework. I also would want to hire people that are at least semi familiar with alot of different music so that they already know what songs in the genre sound like before they attempt to play them for the first time.

I've been trying to find that person for a few years now to complete an ensemble that I like to call my main band. It's not easy. The rest of us have fast ears and heads that function as music recording devices but we need additional instrumentation and it has to be someone who can keep up with us. They just aren't out there. I had a guy chicken out of an audition yesterday because he decided he probably couldn't keep up. It's one thing to know what you want, but it's quite another thing to find it.

 

[RGerhart]

I was raised on jam band music, so this wouldn't be an issue for me at all to try to hear my way through some music. While i know this is some people's worse nightmare, the tough love side of me thinks they need to learn to get over the hump and embrace the chaos. They will be better, more flexible musicians for it. In fact, if i were a band leader, i would only hire people that can quickly catch onto a songs harmony and feel without needing to do the homework. I also would want to hire people that are at least semi familiar with alot of different music so that they already know what songs in the genre sound like before they attempt to play them for the first time. If people aren't willing to try a song, and require homework, i kind of lose respect for their musicianship a bit.

I have to also mention my personal bias, too. I've gone to plenty of jams and open mics and also lead some where you are playing material that's unfamiliar, and you do the best you can. My concern is not so much that I'm having to improvise for these situations and in the audition scenario. My concern is that if this becomes a regular occurrence, I feel like it just lends itself to mediocrity. Again, my personal bias. I've seen too many old classic rock dudes hanging out on Tuesday nights playing "standards" that are mediocre at best, often times terrible.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I have to also mention my personal bias, too. I've gone to plenty of jams and open mics and also lead some where you are playing material that's unfamiliar, and you do the best you can. My concern is not so much that I'm having to improvise for these situations and in the audition scenario. My concern is that if this becomes a regular occurrence, I feel like it just lends itself to mediocrity. Again, my personal bias. I've seen too many old classic rock dudes hanging out on Tuesday nights playing "standards" that are mediocre at best, often times terrible.

I hear you on that. I also would not want to join a group where they have that one guy calling tunes he knows that nobody else does pretty much all the time. That would get old pretty fast.

 

[mcnach]

I need a little insight with the audition process for joining a band. First, my general view and thought process:

I look at an audition the same way I look at an interview for a job: you have some ideas of what you are getting into (job description), you prepare some material (resume), you perform with the band (interviewer ask questions), then you socialize and see if your personality is cohesive enough with everyone else. This might be over more than one meeting, but you get the idea.

I pride myself on being prepared for auditions, and I generally learn everything by ear and notate it out, note for note. Later on after getting the feel for the song I might change things up and interprete it in my own way. I will learn the songs that are given to me for the audition, and that's that.

Now here is my pet peeve. Without fail, most auditions I've had and ones I've participated in when auditioning other musicians, inevitably leads to this scenario: we play the tunes, and it goes smoothly. After covering all the audition songs, the bandleader suggests "hey, let's do these tunes." Or, "hey, do you know these other tunes? No? Okay, well let's jam through them. You'll pick them up." Okay, guy. So, you asked me to learn songs for the audition, and now you just expect me to fumble my way through some tunes I don't know? Oh yeah, this is a great use of everyone's time.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm often inclined to respond with "why don't I just learn these other tunes at home on my own time [because I value people's time], come back and then play them? That way they sound better, and we don't waste anyone's time."

On the other hand, I understand maybe they want to see how someone does when they are put on the spot and are forced to improvise. I don't feel like this is as good of an approach when you are playing cover songs, since fumbling through something doesn't do the song justice. I really try to avoid the "jam" crowd of players that don't prepare for gigs and just show up thinking they can "play by ear" and just embrace mediocrity.

Am I in the minority in this situation? How many of you have experienced this, and what was your response?

I have to note that also, I have learned from this and have taken the initiative to learn 2 - 3 songs from the band's repertoire that they don't suggest for the audition, expecting this scenario above to occur.

I don't see the problem. It's actually useful to see how people manage when put in a situation like that: can they pick up things on the fly? Are they comfortable? Can they improvise? Or is it strictly a "only what's been practiced before" situation?

It all helps you figure what sort of player they are. Even outside purely musically: do they get flustered? or are they easy going? You get an insight on their character, which is important as playing in a band is a lot more than just playing the right notes at the right time.

Is it necessary? I don't think so... but if encountered, why not?
I don't know, maybe I enjoy living on the edge a bit more than you (hardly!!! I'm not exactly Wooten)

 

[mcnach]

My choice is not there in the poll. I would vote No but I'd give it me best shot.

This.

 

[707GK]

Sometimes, when you’re maybe too prepared, you blow through the audition songs real fast and have nothing to discuss after being offered a position in the band. Some people need to pay for rehearsal space and this leaves time paid out of pocket leftover. Instead of wasting time/money, why not experiment with other songs? I like learning on the fly sometimes, it tests my ear training.

 

[pepj]

The reason why learning the song dead straight is not ideal, imv, is that it assumes the other guys have done that too.
Far better to be flexible to be able to make it work very quickly by adjusting than plough on with your part totally oblivious to everything else.

I never know what im going to do until the count in and after the first measure, we know if its working.
You then get known as the quick and reliable study.

As for new startups, if you've done your handwork you know pretty much whether it has promise before you agree to even meet up.