• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

average size venue

O

On The DL

Apr 1, 2008
91
1
KC
#1
This question is for anyone, but I'd like to hear from Justin.

I play once a month at venues that seat typically 1,000-2 people. I fly, so I'm limited on what gear I can bring, Well, I guess the first limitation would be my budget, then flying. At any rate, I bring my Radial Bassbone as a default since I can show up and have any backline from a 1x15 combo to a really decent 8x10 tubed rig to nothing at all. (On a side note, I read and appreciate the "Out of Town- Dubai" thread where you mention using what's at hand instead of having multiples of gear for a show.)

My question is this, which I've posed in a different thread, unanswered. It seems in the venues I play, mostly church buildings, even when the FOH system is very decent, my tone always sounds very boomy down low and very thin and lost in the mix up high. No matter how I eq, compress, no matter what bass etc.

Mabye it's just me, but it seems like it's very difficult to the same tone and evenly reproduced frequencies from a FOH just going direct, unlike plugging straight into any amp- even a little combo.

I don't see alot of live shows, but I did see MuteMath last year. Ampeg 8x10 + p bass = sick punchy,round tone- all over the neck!

Why is this? How much does it have to do with blending a miced cab and a DI?

Any good advice on getting my tone more even in the FOH? we use Avioms by the way so I can hear the tone I want, but I still want to know it sounds good out there and it's usually like pulling teeth trying to get the sound guy to mic anything.

thanks for your input
St
 
#2
He's got to mic it. It has everything to do with blending an amp and DI.

You're not going to get that honest, thick tone unless you blend in more amp sound. Otherwise, especially in a church, you're going to hear, through the Avioms a boomy bottom and some top. I hate that sound. That's why my FOH guy, my tech and I take three lines. You got to have at least two. Unless you use a POD or something as your DI sound, that'll at least help. What about a ParaDriver DI or other Sans Amp? One of those would work well to give you a little more actual punch.

Mute Math is sick - I love them.

JMJ
 
#3
I've been thinking the same thing---I usually end up with something OK in a backline, sometimes an SVT, or maybe it's an Ashdown or something, or some crusty GK 800RB(which I actually like more than the new ones . .) but in these clubs the bass amp is rarely mic'd.
So I'm often sending a very clean DI signal to the house--usually just my bass/Radial DI--- On the one hand I love the idea of that pure bass tone going out to the house, but who knows what they've got going on at the board--I may be an indistinct blur more often than I care to think about, or just sort of "transparent" sounding. . . so maybe a ParaDriver would make sense. I would LIKE to use my reddi live--that's the sound I'd ideally wanna send out to the peeps, but it's a bit cumbersome for those guerilla "get in and out quick" kinda shows(and I wouldn't wanna bang it around that much anyway).
 
#4
jmjbassplayer said:
He's got to mic it. It has everything to do with blending an amp and DI.

You're not going to get that honest, thick tone unless you blend in more amp sound. Otherwise, especially in a church, you're going to hear, through the Avioms a boomy bottom and some top. I hate that sound. That's why my FOH guy, my tech and I take three lines. You got to have at least two. Unless you use a POD or something as your DI sound, that'll at least help. What about a ParaDriver DI or other Sans Amp? One of those would work well to give you a little more actual punch.

Mute Math is sick - I love them.

JMJ
Click to expand...

cool, that's good to know the importance of the mic and di blend- I'll try to push that one, even though it's always requested.

I use the radial bassbone and though I like it, I wish I had my pod xt as well

sometimes, IF I can get it miced, all that's available mic wise is something like a 57. that'll pickup up some definition and is better than nothing, but ideally, I want something equivilant to a 52 right?

thanks for the input!
St
 
#5
I find it critical to have a direct and immediate link to the sound of my bass when I'm playing - especially when my bass is fed through FOH.

The best stage monitor for my needs is my head and cabs, but there are other options, including floor wedges (or other other kinds of on-stage cabinets) fed through FOH, and in-ear monitors - as long as I am able to hear my bass intimately and contemporaneously, I'll get by.

When the on-stage bass sound absolutely must be subbordinate to the PA, I like to take a page from Will Lee's playbook, and elevate a small rig (like my Ampeg flip-top, or Polytone 15" combo) so I can hear my bass clearly without bugging anyone else.
 
#6
Jazzdogg said:
When the on-stage bass sound absolutely must be subbordinate to the PA, I like to take a page from Will Lee's playbook, and elevate a small rig (like my Ampeg flip-top, or Polytone 15" combo) so I can hear my bass clearly without bugging anyone else.
Click to expand...
Will's Fliptop is custom. He's got a 4x10" in it. Has nothing to do with anything...just thought I'd mention it ;)

I have to play rented backline a lot on fly dates, too, and quite often the SVT I request on my rider turns into a GK/Hartke setup, so I've taken to bringing a Markbass Little Mark II with me just so it's one less thing I have to worry about. Not quite the same as an SVT but it has a great clean sound that I consider tube-like. Depending on how crappy the speaker cabs are, I might have it mic'ed or I might not. But I do agree...I spent the last 10 years not running a mic most of the time, but lately I've come back to the mic. It definitely adds a layer of oomph that most DI's can't even begin to reproduce.
 
#7
On The DL said:
sometimes, IF I can get it miced, all that's available mic wise is something like a 57. that'll pickup up some definition and is better than nothing, but ideally, I want something equivilant to a 52 right?
Click to expand...

IME a 57 is an awesome mic for bass, especially if you're placing it on a 10" speaker. I know what the specs say, but my ears say different.

If it absolutely has to be DI only, might I suggest a really nice tube DI, like an Aguilar DB900?

Unfortunately it's a rare situation for me, but when I can have two lines to FOH and it's a combo of the DB900 DI and a 57, my pants get tighter. :o
 
#8
well, I just finished playing in LA for the weekend and fortunately, they had a decent rig for me (GK head and 2- 4x10 cabs) and they even had it miced for me. So, with the combination of slightly raising the pickup on the side of the "g" string and blending the cab and di, I had a really even volume and tone all over the neck in the FOH

So thanks for the all of the input and Justin, if you're reading this, I'd like to hear you're suggestions on an "affordable" mic for a bass cab.

thanks
 
#11
whoatherechunk said:
wow, an sm58? i've never of using one of those for bass. i would think that bass would destroy the sm58. how does it sound?
Click to expand...
Fantastic! The reason I like it is because it has a nice little hump at around 90-100 hz that gives the bass some oomph. The 57 sounds very similar, but doesn't have the hump...it's more of a gradual climb to flat response (go to shure.com and check out the freq response graphs for each). They are both excellent mics and very underrated for micing bass cabs.

BTW, there is nothing on earth short of a sledgehammer that can destroy a 58 or 57. I have actually used one as a light-duty hammer at soundcheck and sung through it that evening.
 
#12
The Shure SM series are indestructible structurally and sonically - they can handle huge SPL. They are also extremely cheap and replaceable.

Any good dynamic mic tends to work just fine on bass...EV RE20, SM7, Audix, SM57 & 58, Beta 52, Heil, AKG D112 etc. All good. Bass is very easy to mic up, actually. Then on the condenser side, any good FET-based large diaphragm condenser is awesome, and even some tube condensers...they are surprisingly resilient and can likewise handle a lot of SPL.

JMJ
 
#13
jmjbassplayer said:
He's got to mic it. It has everything to do with blending an amp and DI.

You're not going to get that honest, thick tone unless you blend in more amp sound. Otherwise, especially in a church, you're going to hear, through the Avioms a boomy bottom and some top. I hate that sound. That's why my FOH guy, my tech and I take three lines. You got to have at least two. Unless you use a POD or something as your DI sound, that'll at least help. What about a ParaDriver DI or other Sans Amp? One of those would work well to give you a little more actual punch.

Mute Math is sick - I love them.

JMJ
Click to expand...

Not to hijack, but what about having a nice, powerful onboard preamp? Is modifying the signal as early as possible more beneficial, as far as control goes, than using a footpedal pre/DI?
 
#14
Eminor, I don't find it beneficial at all over having an outboard preamp. Then again, I tend to run everything flat and only roll off freqs to compensate for the room when I absolutely have to, so preamps are pretty much wasted on me.
 
#15
Eminor, I hear you, but the fact is, you need the sound of air moving a magnetized diaphragm...a mic...in order to help get cool, punchy, inspiring sounds. People may disagree with me, but nothing beats a mic on a speaker ALONG with a DI. Everything else sounds like low-tuned glass to me.

JMJ
 
#16
jmjbassplayer said:
Eminor, I hear you, but the fact is, you need the sound of air moving a magnetized diaphragm...a mic...in order to help get cool, punchy, inspiring sounds. People may disagree with me, but nothing beats a mic on a speaker ALONG with a DI. Everything else sounds like low-tuned glass to me.

JMJ
Click to expand...
Justin, YMMV, but I am getting such a positive reaction from soundmen from wanting to run a mic that they usually end up ditching the DI altogether. I've only started using a mic again in the last few months, and I never thought it would happen, but it's been pretty much unanimous that the DI is superfluous.
 
#17
Sometimes, it really is superfluous, yes.

Though it's different because it's a recording, I will state again for the record: Sea Change was recorded with no DI - just a Neumann Fet 47 mic one foot off the grill of my B-15R reissue. Try to tell me that bass sound isn't nice.

Best,
JMJ
 
#18
The bass sounds on "Sea Change" are awesome. The playing ain't bad either ;)

You weren't the reason I started micing again, but you are definitely the reason I'm insisting on it. And contrary to my original thought that soundmen would be totally resistant to it, it's working out great.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back