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Away from Multi Effects

O

oldprussians

Jan 7, 2008
475
6
United Republic of Europe
Disclosures
IT Professional!
#1
After achieving great disappointment with the Zoom B3, and sending it back, I have decided to move away from Multi effects.

Sure I'll keep my B2 for exactly why it was really bought in the first place, which is Portable amp to use with headphones in a hotel room, but that's it!

I realised, rehearsing with my new band that the effects I really use are Octaver and an envelope filter, sometimes! The Octaver on most multi effects are pants!

This modelling business is silly! If you have a half decent amp the basic sound should available there especially if you paid good wad for it!

Now the only thing I'm upset with is that I got rid of my Arion Stage Tuner. Fortunately I've bought a Behringer which was cheap enough.

So I've got a EBS Octobass and a Behringer Vintage Bass envelope filter, now discontinued, coming along with the tuner. Yes I know don't buy cheap effects! But it was only 20 odd quid, and has a true by pass, so if it is pants I stand it and get a EBS IQ.

I am very pleasantly surprised with my Amp the Behringer Ultra Bass 1800A. Cheap, Loud, good warm sound with an aluminium cone and the Distortion channel is isn't bad, as well an OK low end Octaver.

Methinks I got lucky with that batch this amp came form....


I'm sure I did research some time ago and discovered most so called pro Bass player user the odd stomp and a a good amp, rather that a multi effect.... Someone prove me wrong....
 
#3
I went away from multi effects and then came back. I think my happy medium is the M5 which I'm using along with my favorite effect pedals to fill in any gaps. It's basically a swiss army knife of pedals. But I don't think I'll go back to 100% multieffects ever.
 
#4
I don't really find many useful sounds in my B21u. I do like it as a direct in to my computer or something like that. The effects just sound too digital for my used-to-analogue ears. There are a couple of good effects in there though.
 
#5
I agree with caeman, you shouldn't give up on multi-effects processors. you just need to find the right one for you. there has been a lot of praises on the line 6 m5, m9, and the m13. but there are other multi-effects processors to choose from. if it helps, I do have a soundclick website where I record sound samples of certain multi-effects processors. here's the link.

www.soundclick.com/crystalman85

Feel free to check it out.
 
#8
YAY!! Good for you!!

I personally find with pretty much everything, if it does many things, it does them poorly, if it does one thing it does it great.

That said I have seen guitar multi effect units I would buy and run.... if I were a professional, as they were about $3k when said and done.

To each their own.
 
#10
oldprussians said:
This modelling business is silly! If you have a half decent amp the basic sound should available there especially if you paid good wad for it!
Click to expand...

Amen! Just had a point-and-laugh session last week with my buddy who's a Mac/Apple and Logic salesman who brought his iPad to practice with Mainstage out the wazoo on it mounted through some sort of Alesis dock. He spent much time praising and boasting on it only to unplug it and go straight to amp after two songs. He sounded so good after killing that POS that I had to ask what pickup config he used to nail the lead sound from the original recording.

It's a simple concept: musical tone is not created by nerds doing math with binary code; it's made by electrons moving..hopefully through the space of a hot valve. That will never change. In 20 years there will be a huge pile of simulators, emulators, sound fakers and other unreal gadgets in a time layer at the city dump. I don't care how good you think they sound now... at some point you're going to hear the difference and wonder what the heck you were thinking. As someone who monitors a producer/engineer forum, I can tell you that this happens over and over and over and over again...
 
#11
chrismuzz said:
What didn't you like about the B3 dude? Was it everything? Or just a few of the effects?
Click to expand...

The octaver was pants pants pantity pants, worse than my B2 octaver.

And that breaks up on the 20th fret!

An octaver is a really basic effect for bass! If you can't get that right!

And also any product that carries a warning that the processor might struggle with some combinations in real time..... need I say more?
 
#13
oldprussians said:
The octaver was pants pants pantity pants, worse than my B2 octaver.

And that breaks up on the 20th fret!

An octaver is a really basic effect for bass! If you can't get that right!

And also any product that carries a warning that the processor might struggle with some combinations in real time..... need I say more?
Click to expand...

I actually found the octaver tracked quite well compared to other units i've tried. Doesn't beat a Boss, EBS, or Markbass unit though!
 
#15
oldprussians said:
An octaver is a really basic effect for bass! If you can't get that right!
Click to expand...

it may be a basic 'sound' but pitch shifting is one of the hardest effects to achieve technically...

oldprussians said:
And also any product that carries a warning that the processor might struggle with some combinations in real time..... need I say more?
Click to expand...

Well the alternative is to make the algorithms worse just in case somone wants to use 3 complex ones (which are mainly the amp sims) in a row.Or just not have any high power algorithms. Processor power being finite, there has to be a compromise somewhere...

The thing that bothered me about the B3 is the same thing as with most multi fx - the routing. Why assume that people want the three effects in series?
 
#16
avvie said:
Amen! Just had a point-and-laugh session last week with my buddy who's a Mac/Apple and Logic salesman who brought his iPad to practice with Mainstage out the wazoo on it mounted through some sort of Alesis dock. He spent much time praising and boasting on it only to unplug it and go straight to amp after two songs. He sounded so good after killing that POS that I had to ask what pickup config he used to nail the lead sound from the original recording.

It's a simple concept: musical tone is not created by nerds doing math with binary code; it's made by electrons moving..hopefully through the space of a hot valve. That will never change. In 20 years there will be a huge pile of simulators, emulators, sound fakers and other unreal gadgets in a time layer at the city dump. I don't care how good you think they sound now... at some point you're going to hear the difference and wonder what the heck you were thinking. As someone who monitors a producer/engineer forum, I can tell you that this happens over and over and over and over again...
Click to expand...

Re: the second paragraph, I could not agree more. Ultimately it comes down to personal taste, and what you are going for. For me personally,
I realized this after I got more into audio production, engineering, and sound design. The more I delved into it, the more I could hear the differences between electrical circuits or magnetic tape, and binary code. And once you developed the ability to hear the drastic differences, you are blessed/cursed to always hear things with more depth.
 
#17
I'm cool with digital modeling for most modulation and time effects. The DL4 (struggle to consider it a multi-FX,...but modelling none the less) to my ears is still one of the best delays on the market.

Not so much for Octavers and Drive/Fuzz/Distortion. I prefer analog for those sounds. I will settle for nothing less than Analog octavers. Sure Digital octavers are less glitchy and track a little better,...but they just don't have the old nasty sound.
 
#18
The only multieffect I've found that sounds really good is the Lexicon G2. Long out of production and full of now unreliable proprietary parts. The filters took a bit of tweaking to get right, but when I did, they sounded great. Now that mine is busted, I'm a bit bereft. Maybe MainStage? The SoundToys FilterFreak is an amazing sounding filter and I'd love to be able to use it live. Then add reverbs by Lexicon, delay by PSP, etc., and I'd be all set.
 
#19
oldprussians said:
This modelling business is silly! If you have a half decent amp the basic sound should available there especially if you paid good wad for it!
Click to expand...

This is awesome!

The main piece of gear I use is my Boss ME-50B, for both bass and guitar, as it's a great compact piece for synth sounds. I'd love to know what basic amp would get me there.

avvie said:
It's a simple concept: musical tone is not created by nerds doing math with binary code; it's made by electrons moving..hopefully through the space of a hot valve. That will never change.
Click to expand...

Some years ago, I used to belong to a forum dedicated to synthesis, with subboards dedicated to sampling, analog and so on. One of the topics of discussion was virtual synths, with some people talking about how virtual analog would never successfully emulate true analog.

And then virtual analogs were there. The discussion ended, except for the minority which exists in any group, talking about how digital pedals will never nail the sound of analog, how CDs will never accurately reproduce the sound of vinyl, and so on.

I'm sure that accurate modeling will never happen with guitar and bass, though. It's absolutely impossible.

That's why all those people gigging and recording with items like the AxeFX should listen to internet forums, instead of committing such a mistake.

----

What I *really* like is the idea that *one* multieffect would be used as an example of *all* multis. How did I miss this topic before? *laugh*
 
#20
Explorer said:
I'm sure that accurate modeling will never happen with guitar and bass, though. It's absolutely impossible.

That's why all those people gigging and recording with items like the AxeFX should listen to internet forums, instead of committing such a mistake.
Click to expand...

:D

It's pretty funny to see the range of great artists who have made extensive use of multieffects (particularly the Eventide ones) and modeling, and then read all the internet talk that none of it sounds good, it'll never last, etc.
 

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