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b string sound above 5th fret
- Thread starter Emanuel Apascaritei
- Start date
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
Ok, so you get nasty overtones when you hit the B string above the 5th fret.
Well, the answer is because it is a 34" scale, I had the issue with my Carvin (above the 12th fret) and I discussed this with Sheldon Dingwall, the 35"+ scale is essential to a clean sounding B all the way up the neck. The 34" scale can still yield a fantastic B, my Carvin B is just as tight and responsive as the other strings, only the Dingwall B stands up in my experience.
The issue has nothing to do with your pickups, your string choice, whether it is a tapered string or not, or any other things. The bass will always sound like that. Period. The fact is how often to you hit over the 5th fret on the B anyways? That is what it is there for.
Strings, shims, or anything else will do nothing but waste your time and money. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you like everything else about the bass, who cares?
For me, I get the use of the first octave without issue, and I don't really play beyond the 12th fret on the B ever so it isn't a big issue since I love everything else about the bass.
Well, the answer is because it is a 34" scale, I had the issue with my Carvin (above the 12th fret) and I discussed this with Sheldon Dingwall, the 35"+ scale is essential to a clean sounding B all the way up the neck. The 34" scale can still yield a fantastic B, my Carvin B is just as tight and responsive as the other strings, only the Dingwall B stands up in my experience.
The issue has nothing to do with your pickups, your string choice, whether it is a tapered string or not, or any other things. The bass will always sound like that. Period. The fact is how often to you hit over the 5th fret on the B anyways? That is what it is there for.
Strings, shims, or anything else will do nothing but waste your time and money. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you like everything else about the bass, who cares?
For me, I get the use of the first octave without issue, and I don't really play beyond the 12th fret on the B ever so it isn't a big issue since I love everything else about the bass.
DiabolusInMusic said:
I have a 34" scale Sadowsky and I would say its not essential to have a 35" scale to have clean notes up the neck
64jazzbass said:
I'd go farther and say I've experienced no correlation between scale length and b performance having had tons of both 34 and 35. 37 may be a different story, but the 3% difference between 34 and 35 does very little.
I have lowered the pick ups and the sound is thicker and juicier on all the strings...I really dig it. The B has better response and maybe got a little better above the 5th fret but still has that little tubey sound....
Sory, I didn´t have time to record something....Tomorrow I promise I do
Sory, I didn´t have time to record something....Tomorrow I promise I do
Check what strings you put on and more importantly check the set up. I find those two are rather important in terms of B string performance.
Hi cnltb
the set up is perfect for me. Low action with nearly straight neck (very little relief) and the intonation is spot on. I have Sadowsky blue nickels 40 - 125T on it. I do think these are pretty good strings.
the set up is perfect for me. Low action with nearly straight neck (very little relief) and the intonation is spot on. I have Sadowsky blue nickels 40 - 125T on it. I do think these are pretty good strings.
Here are some sound clips. both samples start at open note and end at 12 fret.
first is the low E and than the low B.
Bass settings:
-both pick-ups
-paralel
-active
-bass up full (at zero, it´s cut only)
-treble up full (at zero, it´s cut only)
Strings: Sadowsky blue nickels 40 - 125T
Recorded directly to Phonic Firefly 808u D.I. to Nuendo. No processing was done to the file.
__________________
first is the low E and than the low B.
Bass settings:
-both pick-ups
-paralel
-active
-bass up full (at zero, it´s cut only)
-treble up full (at zero, it´s cut only)
Strings: Sadowsky blue nickels 40 - 125T
Recorded directly to Phonic Firefly 808u D.I. to Nuendo. No processing was done to the file.
__________________
I have never tried thes estrings and I too use a nearly sraight neck.
Sometimes strings go bad though.
I had a buzz on one fret once. Had a whole fretstone done and found afterwards that the stringwindings had loosened ever so slightly, causing the buzz.
A 'B' may well suffer from similar things happening-I do not mean to say that a broken string does always manifest itself in a buzz, mind.
A couple ideas:
The mp3s sound like missmatched strings to me-with the B possibly too fat, causing the difference in tone and muddyness.
It may also not be intonated properly, causing the pitches to not come over clearly.
Or the string may need a little playing to reach the point where it sounds best...it may well improve if /when you use that string a little more.
well, the B is tapered and the E is not,
the B is .125 and the E is .100
I double checked the intonation and is perfect.
I´ll play it to see if it gets better.
Thank you cnltb
the B is .125 and the E is .100
I double checked the intonation and is perfect.
I´ll play it to see if it gets better.
Thank you cnltb
Good luck!
I am currently trying to 'massage a B into shape too...
It's an 129 with a 126 (I think)E. I am used to a 126 B and really do feel the difference.
Your B being another type of string than the E may well be either the reason or a contributing factor to what is going on as well .
D on the B string is dead as is the A, all the lowend goes away, clearly
Hmmm- I would try some other strings but I don't think that is your answer.
Are you keeping this bass? You might try the adding some mass to the neck. See my prior post link.
Hmmm- I would try some other strings but I don't think that is your answer.
Are you keeping this bass? You might try the adding some mass to the neck. See my prior post link.
Good luck!
I am currently trying to 'massage a B into shape too...
It's an 129 with a 126 (I think)E. I am used to a 126 B and really do feel the difference.
Your B being another type of string than the E may well be either the reason or a contributing factor to what is going on as well .
I agree. Getting even tone and response across all the string and frets is always my goal and challenge. Sometimes it's a real struggle that takes trying strings, setups, pickup heights, and anything else you can think of. unfortunately sometimes it's just the bass. My Ken Smith is my "standard" for even tone all over the neck which always reminds me that yes, it IS possible to get that with a 34" scale bass.
As for tapered B strings, I have some with and some without and I really haven't come up with any "rule" that works. You just trying things until you like it.
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
And you are entitled to do so, but this issue is quite common on 34" scale B strings, I have only heard of people saying their 34" B is perfect and only on brands I have no experience with, generally boutique like Sadowsky and Alleva-Coppola. I am guessing your basses in question are bolt-ons, that seems to be the one common thing with folks who state this. Not to say all 34" bolt on B's are good, most are not in my experience. There are also apparently Squier's that play better than any MIA Fender, haven't seen those either. I also don't think a 35" is the answer, but I think the results are noticeably improved over a 34", I do think a 37" is a much better quality B over 35".
The issue is well known to many luthiers about the scale of the B string, it has nothing to do with intonation, pickup height, or any other factor, it has to do with scale only. The issue only occurs where the B string is not commonly used and is covered in the mix anyways, so it is not an issue for 99% of players. I personally don't think twice about scale length, but some players will not touch a 35" and vice versa.
We can debate until our faces turn blue, there isn't an answer, just like the tone wood debate, some people don't even notice the issue on their basses. I pointed out the issue on mine to another player and he then played his B string all the way up the neck, he had to exact same issue, with a very well respected TB luthiers bass. The point is, that this is the issue at hand and there is no cure for it, dig around, everybody comes to the same solution.
I got my schooling on the subject from Sheldon Dingwall, in my opinion he is the king of the B string, I trust his experience and knowledge far more than my own.
Notes played further-up on big a string sound different than the same notes played further-down on a smaller string. I don't' mind a "thicker/more complex" option for my low notes, it's useful sometimes...as long as they're in-tune. If I find myself using a "high note" on the B string out of technical necessity(ease of motion)then I'm usually playing pretty fast and the note isn't being held very long and it's not as easy to hear the "tubey/tubby..nes" of the note. This is where the right strings, good set-up and technique come into play. IMO, it's more beneficial to work on the attack of the 'high low notes' than their sustaining qualities. My primary concern is how the notes sound below the 5th fret on my B string, I'm willing to work with the other stuff.
That´s a surprize I didn´t notice this on my sennheiser hd201 headphones or genelec monitors (with genelec sub)
Agreed!
Notes do sound different ,when played on different strings and in different places on the neck. I think what is important is that they don't sound 'too' different.
I also don't think that this is often a problem although I can remember one bass where it was( a rather expensive one it was too
)Another idea as to the 'interesting' sounding B...maybe the pickup is too close to it.
Agreed!
Notes do sound different ,when played on different strings and in different places on the neck. I think what is important is that they don't sound 'too' different.
I also don't think that this is often a problem although I can remember one bass where it was( a rather expensive one it was too
Another idea as to the 'interesting' sounding B...maybe the pickup is too close to it.
I have the pick-ups at more than 6 mm from the strings. Do you think I should lower them more?
I have the pick-ups at more than 6 mm from the strings. Do you think I should lower them more?
I'd say it depends on the pickups , but 6mm sure sounds like it should be enough.( mine is currently at 4mm but has been at 3.5 and 5 as well)
I go by what sounds best to me and those 'settings' do change depending on set up and strings I have on the instrument at any given time.
Many elements do play with the tone of an instrument and eventually you zero in on what works best for you.
I am still experimenting with string gauges although I think that I am settled on the type of string I like and one set in terms of gauges that I know works for me and around which I try things,experiment and see if things get even better still.
Currently i have a 129 B one going up from my usual 126. I feel that 129 is too big for me.-doesn't fit in with the other strings the way I'd like it to.
